Mike Bickle's "Israel Mandate"

[Angela53510]

The Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ from start to finish.

Without the Bible, the Word of God, we have no standards, no values, no comparison, and no revelation. When you rely on modern revelation, solely, you end up with heresies, like yours, Willie, in which Jesus did not die for your sins.

Which was the whole purpose of him coming, if you had ever read the Bible.

As for spurious scriptures like 1 Tim. 2:12, a bad translation of "authentein" puts men in authority over women. Except the word in Greek for "authority" is "exousia." Instead, a woman especially one in Ephesus, probably uneducated and likely formerly of the cult of Artemis, is not to domineer a man. Or for that matter, as believers, we all need to submit to one another, as per Eph. 5:21

"submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

There are no contradictions in the Bible, although some men might choose to try and push a viewpoint which is completely against the gospel. (Or women, it seems lately in this forum!)

 

[Sirk]

The Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ from start to finish.

Without the Bible, the Word of God, we have no standards, no values, no comparison, and no revelation. When you rely on modern revelation, solely, you end up with heresies, like yours, Willie, in which Jesus did not die for your sins.

Which was the whole purpose of him coming, if you had ever read the Bible.

As for spurious scriptures like 1 Tim. 2:12, a bad translation of "authentein" puts men in authority over women. Except the word in Greek for "authority" is "exousia." Instead, a woman especially one in Ephesus, probably uneducated and likely formerly of the cult of Artemis, is not to domineer a man. Or for that matter, as believers, we all need to submit to one another, as per Eph. 5:21

"submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

There are no contradictions in the Bible, although some men might choose to try and push a viewpoint which is completely against the gospel. (Or women, it seems lately in this forum!)

And if I can add that God has assembled the bible we have today according to His good and perfect will.

 

[Willie-T]

The Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ from start to finish.

Without the Bible, the Word of God, we have no standards, no values, no comparison, and no revelation. When you rely on modern revelation, solely, you end up with heresies, like yours, Willie, in which Jesus did not die for your sins.

Which was the whole purpose of him coming, if you had ever read the Bible.

As for spurious scriptures like 1 Tim. 2:12, a bad translation of "authentein" puts men in authority over women. Except the word in Greek for "authority" is "exousia." Instead, a woman especially one in Ephesus, probably uneducated and likely formerly of the cult of Artemis, is not to domineer a man. Or for that matter, as believers, we all need to submit to one another, as per Eph. 5:21

"submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

There are no contradictions in the Bible, although some men might choose to try and push a viewpoint which is completely against the gospel. (Or women, it seems lately in this forum!)

Wow. And you say you aren't mobile and flexible. That was as great a feat of twisting and maneuvering as I have seen in a long time. LOL

 

[PeterJens]

Oh, please do try to learn a few things. That verse has nothing to do with the book we call Bible.

It was interesting when I was talking to muslims. There is a theological idea that everything that actually eternal is God, or part of him. Now if God can do anything, his attributes limit him so they are a separate being. The creative act or message is again something eternal and separate. In Islam it is God the creator, Gods attibutes and the Koran.
In christian faith it is God the creator, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, the living message.

Jesus puts his words as recorded in the gospels as eternal. So the bible in part is eternal, and it may be all eternal but that will only be confirmed when me meet face to face, but it would not surprise me.

Funnily though this idea is fundamental to scripture, you want to exalt a "prophet" highly, when they have less authority and power than Jesus, but deminish Jesus's actual words, the words of the Living God. I think something is very wrong here.

 

[Willie-T]

We really do have to pay more attention to words we use..... Either the words we are reading from that book are completely true and authoritative, or we get to decide they are not... when it suits us to do so.

spu·ri·ous

/ˈspo͝orēəs/

adjective

adjective: spurious

not being what it purports to be; false or fake.
"separating authentic and spurious claims"

synonyms: bogus, fake, false, counterfeit, forged, fraudulent, sham, artificial, imitation, simulated, feigned, deceptive, misleading, specious; More informalphony, pretend

"an attempt to be excused due to some spurious medical condition"

antonyms: genuine

•(of a line of reasoning) apparently but not actually valid.
"this spurious reasoning results in nonsense"

•archaic
(of offspring) illegitimate

 

[Willie-T]

It was interesting when I was talking to muslims. There is a theological idea that everything that actually eternal is God, or part of him. Now if God can do anything, his attributes limit him so they are a separate being. The creative act or message is again something eternal and separate. In Islam it is God the creator, Gods attibutes and the Koran.
In christian faith it is God the creator, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, the living message.

Jesus puts his words as recorded in the gospels as eternal. So the bible in part is eternal, and it may be all eternal but that will only be confirmed when me meet face to face, but it would not surprise me.

Funnily though this idea is fundamental to scripture, you want to exalt a "prophet" highly, when they have less authority and power than Jesus, but deminish Jesus's actual words, the words of the Living God. I think something is very wrong here.

I'd try to respond, if I had the slightest idea what you said.

 

[Galahad]

Back to Mike Bickle? Not particularly. I think I already said I just can't go along with his stuff. (And that comes from me personally sitting in his warehouse church.... not hearsay.)

No. Do you want to go to the thread to where you made your original statement that the Bible is not authoritative?

 

[Sirk]

I'd try to respond, if I had the slightest idea what you said.

The whole of the bible points to Jesus and is a love letter to us. It is a story of love where it isn't deserved.

 

[PeterJens]

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matt 5:11-12

Let us rejoice when those rail against the truth we speak and have no answer, for this is what they did against the prophets of old. So nothing has changed for 1000's of years

 

[Galahad]

Lol You hide your own emotions, and put people at a distance. You want to claim wisdom but contribute little.

I LIKEd your reply above. I picked up on the same thing from the first time I saw the fiery embers in ember's replies.


I couldn't get a clarification to a statement she made. Well, you can read the posts in this thread. They all speak for themselves.

 

[PeterJens]

The whole of the bible points to Jesus and is a love letter to us. It is a story of love where it isn't deserved.

Sirk. Thankyou very much. I really really do not understand these people, not even for a second. It makes me cry, deeply.
What has the church done to come to a place like this. I know in my whole being who the Lord is and what he has done. Words cannot express everything I owe to him, and my family and where he has brought me. It is like people who claim faith are trampling all over my precious Lord and that makes me sad. So thankyou brother.

 

[Sirk]

Sirk. Thankyou very much. I really really do not understand these people, not even for a second. It makes me cry, deeply.
What has the church done to come to a place like this. I know in my whole being who the Lord is and what he has done. Words cannot express everything I owe to him, and my family and where he has brought me. It is like people who claim faith are trampling all over my precious Lord and that makes me sad. So thankyou brother.

We're all just people who too high of expectations on others. I have found my life is more filled with joy during those times when my expectations of others are tempered with the truth that we all fall short. When my expectations are high, I'm disappointed a lot.

 

[Chica]

But they were given to the church in a book that you guys are insisting is "Authoritative." How can we say something is authoritative, yet say part of the original book we are revering didn't really come from God's inspiration?

They weren't "given" to the church. They were swiped by the church of Rome and used for their own purpose. The Jews wrote them and they acknowledged that the time period they were written in was not a time when God was giving inspired writings. The Jewish scholars at Jamnia (ca. A.D. 90) did not accept the Acpocrypha as part of the divinely inspired Jewish Canon.

What good is it since it doesn't contain any new Messianic truth. The Jewish community whose books these were, acknowleded that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before they were written.

Interestingly enough even Roman Catholic scholars through the Reformation period distinguished between deutrocanon and canon. Cardinal Ximenes made this distinction in his Complutensian Polyglot (1514-17) on the very eve of the Reformation.

Cardinal Cajetan, who later opposed Luther at Augsburg in 1518, published a Commentary on All the Authentic Historical Books of the Old Testament (1532) after the Reformation began which did not contain the Apocrypha. Luther spoke against the Apocrypha in 1543 including its books at the back of his Bible.

Augustine himself recognized that the Jews did not accept them as part of their canon.

You may not think the Bible is inspired but like I told Joshua Generation:

The authority of the NT lies with the men that wrote it, the apostles.

Paul quoted the gospel of Luke as "Scripture" (1Tim.5:18--Luke 10:7), Peter had a collection of Paul's "letters" (2Peter 3:16).

The apostles exhorted that their letters be read and circulated among the churches (Col. 4:16; 1Thess. 5:27, Rev. 1:3)

They seemed to have found value in the Bible.

You need to come to full age and accept the fact that some of the leaders of charismatic congregations are flat out liars when they say they have "new revelations" for the church.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

There are no more revelations, we have all we need. The faith has an unchanging, and unchangeable content.

 

[Galahad]

I agree...

there is no guarantie to godliness no matter what persuasion your are though...BUT I did not see where anyone in this thread said that the gifts are some sort of superior Christianity...which would be because no one did say that

Well yeah, look at the Corinthian church...they needed correction because of what they were DOING

Now lets look at so many dried up churches...who need correction because they are doing NOTHING

Where is the balance? It is in doing things in an orderly and biblically based way...which, it seems, is one of the hardest things to do

No doubt, because of all the personalities who have not really submitted to Christ as Lord...whether of the cessationist camps or the whoppee lets feel good camps

Frankly, I am tired of hearing about the Corinthian church...how about the Icabod church that refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to fulfill HIS office?

I grew up in a church that refused any move of the Holy Spirit....but it happened anyway...and those who were hungry, were satisfied

I really liked the church I grew up in nonetheless...it was a Brethern church...but not the really strict kind...and I know they have kind of grown with the congregation...what was nice there, was that they really tried to follow the biblical model with elders rather then one single pastor who you were 'stuck' with...

well anyway...I never did hear such arguing back and forth until I started frequenting Christian forums...it seems most are Baptist this or that...never went to a Baptist church ... there was one in the province I grew up in...the pastor there (no elders) was a womanizing creep who even made nasty comments to me when I was a counsellor at a Christian camp (I was 15)...his poor wife ... he was finally shown the door...of course I don't think of all Baptist ministers as being womanizing creeps...so why do so many think anyone who is Charasmatic is off the wall weird?

Frankly, I am tired of hearing about the Corinthian church

So we should all cease and desist mentioning the Corinthian church? Because YOU are tired of hearing about it?

Sorry, but the truth is, It's in the Bible. It will always be in the Bible. And I will never get tired of reading or hearing about it.

Put some salve on those itching ears.

 

[Willie-T]

Humm, Chica. No modern revelations today? Then it was not true when it was written that in the last days, old men would dream dreams and young men would have visions?

 

[Sirk]

Humm, Chica. No modern revelations today? Then it was not true when it was written that in the last days, old men would dream dreams and young men would have visions?

Ive had visions and had dreams....nothing that I would push on others with any kind of authority.

 

[Willie-T]

Ive had visions and had dreams....nothing that I would push on others with any kind of authority.

Why do you suppose you had them?

 

[Sirk]

Why do you suppose you had them?

One time I was camping at the lake and long story short I felt an obvious nudge to put my tent in a different place than I was considering. The next day the spot where I was originally going to put it was under water. Was it the Holy Spirit leading me? Maybe....but I'm no prophet....all the prophecy we need is contained in the bible and would have likely woke up before I drowned.

 

[Willie-T]

One time I was camping at the lake and long story short I felt an obvious nudge to put my tent in a different place than I was considering. The next day the spot where I was originally going to put it was under water. Was it the Holy Spirit leading me? Maybe....but I'm no prophet....all the prophecy we need is contained in the bible and would have likely woke up before I drowned.

Have you considered that it might be time to thank the Holy Spirit for times and urgings like that, rather than dismiss them as coincidences that you would have probably handled all by yourself, anyway?

 

[Sirk]

Have you considered that it might be time to thank the Holy Spirit for times and urgings like that, rather than dismiss them as coincidences that you would have probably handled all by yourself, anyway?

I was very thankful to God for it and I gave Him full credit and still do. The point is that this side of eternity I can't say for certain that it was God telling me. I wanna believe it was and either way I am grateful.