Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Magenta]

Could not even read it all myself. Mary is dead...dead, dead, dead. Jesus did NOT give Mary to be the spiritual mother of all peoples...He spoke to Mary and said "woman behold thy son", and to His disciple "behold thy mother", and he took her unto his own house. How did they get mother of all mankind from that? Not to mention all the other nonsense. Praying to Mary is akin to praying to a false god in my opinion. Mary had an incredible honor...she gave birth to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Other than that, she was a sinner as is the rest of mankind. (Can already hear the gasps of horror).

Jesus never even addressed her as His mother, but Catholics want us to? In Scripture,
Mary is said to have been blessed among women, but what did Jesus say?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

"Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

"Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

"Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

"Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

"Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

What else did He say?

"Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

 

[zzz98]

Jesus never even addressed her as His mother, but Catholics want us to? In Scripture,
Mary is said to have been blessed among women, but what did Jesus say?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

"Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

"Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

"Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

"Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

"Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

What else did He say?

"Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Sorry guys, are you suggesting the Blessed Mary did not have these attributes?

 

[Magenta]

Sorry guys, are you suggesting the Blessed Mary did not have these attributes?

What I am explicitly saying is this:

Jesus never even addressed her as His mother, but Catholics want us to? In Scripture,
Mary is said to have been blessed among women, but what did Jesus say?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

"Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

"Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

"Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

"Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

"Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

What else did He say?

"Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

PS I am not a guy, let alone "guys." Shall we call Mary Jesus' brother or sister,
then? Jesus never accorded her any special status. Why do you? Jesus told us to
pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead?

 

[zzz98]

What I am explicitly saying is this:

Jesus never even addressed her as His mother, but Catholics want us to? In Scripture,
Mary is said to have been blessed among women, but what did Jesus say?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

"Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

"Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

"Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

"Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

"Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

What else did He say?

"Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

PS I am not a guy, let alone "guys." Shall we call Mary Jesus' brother or sister,
then? Jesus never accorded her any special status. Why do you? Jesus told us to
pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead?

The Angel Gabriel told her she was already "Full of Grace" why would Jesus need to address this again? For you?

 

[zzz98]

Sorry for real, this conversation is addicting

 

[Magenta]

The Angel Gabriel told her she was already "Full of Grace" why would Jesus need to address this again? For you?

You have a decided proclivity to miss what has been addressed to you, which seems to be deliberate. Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother. He never elevated her above others, but Catholics, in fact, do quite the opposite of Jesus. Not only do Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness. Why is that? It would be helpful if you could honestly address the questions put to you instead of resorting to your evasions. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead? Is it just because your popes tell you to despite what Jesus explicitly said? God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory. Why do you wish to glorify Mary? Scripture explicitly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet your popes tell you to pray to Mary for intercession. Why do you fault those who do as Jesus said, while you disobey Him to follow someone else instead? We see nothing in Scripture to assume or endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. And you seriously wonder why we oppose Roman Catholicism?

 

[fordman]

Jesus never even addressed her as His mother, but Catholics want us to? In Scripture,
Mary is said to have been blessed among women, but what did Jesus say?

Sorry, but you'd be wrong Magenta, not just us Catholics, but Holy Scripture as well!! Maybe Jesus didn't come right out and say it, But the Apostles knew good and well that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, They were so sure she was the mother of Jesus that they wrote of it!! So lets see what they had to say about it, they being the Apostles. These quotes are from your very own Protestant version of the bible, the King James Version.

John 2:3; And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jn.3:5 "His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it
　

Jn.3:12; After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

Jn.19:26-27; "And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart."

Luke 2:51; "And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart."

And then there is Luke 11:27; And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." Now Magenta, who do you think this woman was talking about if it wasn't Mary, Jesus' mother?
　

Are you now going to say that Scripture is in error Magenta??? How about you 49, do you beleive Scripture is in error refuring to Mary as Jesus' mother??? Or maybe you Gr8grace, do you beleive Scripture is in error by refuring to Mary as Jesus' mother??? {rolling eyes}
　

Pax Christi

 

[dallasb78]

Pardon me but God said it is grace that saves not works. Eph 2:8-10

I agree that apart from the Holy Spirit no man is able to understand. Again God said that the Holy Spirit lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Of course Grace is what saves but Grace is the part that comes from God, Obedience is the part that comes from us. Lighteth is not the same as the ability to fully understand the scriptures.

 

[zzz98]

You have a decided proclivity to miss what has been addressed to you, which seems to be deliberate. Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother. He never elevated her above others, but Catholics, in fact, do quite the opposite of Jesus. Not only do Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness. Why is that? It would be helpful if you could honestly address the questions put to you instead of resorting to your evasions. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead? Is it just because your popes tell you to despite what Jesus explicitly said? God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory. Why do you wish to glorify Mary? Scripture explicitly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet your popes tell you to pray to Mary for intercession. Why do you fault those who do as Jesus said, while you disobey Him to follow someone else instead? We see nothing in Scripture to assume or endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. And you seriously wonder why we oppose Roman Catholicism?

I believe it is you who twist scripture to say Mary was not Jesus mother. Imo,this is heresy. Hmmmmm might be a good thread, the denial of Jesus mother

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Angel Gabriel told her she was already "Full of Grace" why would Jesus need to address this again? For you?

"In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” 29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God."

The Angel Gabriel said no such thing. What he did say to Mary in both verses 28 and 30 was "Greetings, you who are highly favored" not "you who are full of grace." The angel Gabriel told Mary that God's grace was upon her, not that she herself was full of grace, meaning that she is the receiver of God's grace, not the one giving grace. No where in scripture is Mary ever said to be full of grace, but that God's favor was upon her.

 

[dallasb78]

Technically the woman did not give birth to our Lord and Savior. She gave birth to Jesus, His humanity.

Christ is deity, and eternal.......cannot be birthed, cannot die.

Jesus~~Humanity
Christ~~Deity

The woman gave birth to the body that was prepared for His Deity.

You cannot separate Jesus and God, they are the Same.

 

[Magenta]

I believe it is you who twist scripture to say Mary was not Jesus mother. Imo,this is heresy. Hmmmmm might be a good thread, the denial of Jesus mother

You have a decided proclivity to miss what has been addressed to you, which seems to be deliberate. I said no such thing. Try again? And answer questions, instead of evading and falsely accusing?

 

[Gr8grace]

[/COLOR][/B]Sorry, but you'd be wrong Magenta, not just us Catholics, but Holy Scripture as well!! Maybe Jesus didn't come right out and say it, But the Apostles knew good and well that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, They were so sure she was the mother of Jesus that they wrote of it!! So lets see what they had to say about it, they being the Apostles. These quotes are from your very own Protestant version of the bible, the King James Version.

John 2:3; And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jn.3:5 "His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it
　

Jn.3:12; After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days."

Jn.19:26-27; "And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart."

Luke 2:51; "And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart."

And then there is Luke 11:27; And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." Now Magenta, who do you think this woman was talking about if it wasn't Mary, Jesus' mother?
　

Are you now going to say that Scripture is in error Magenta??? How about you 49, do you beleive Scripture is in error refuring to Mary as Jesus' mother??? Or maybe you Gr8grace, do you beleive Scripture is in error by refuring to Mary as Jesus' mother??? {rolling eyes}
　

Pax Christi
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Pretty simple IMO. The woman was the mother of Jesus. Not Jesus CHRIST. She was the mother of Jesus's humanity.

 

[zzz98]

"In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” 29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God."

The Angel Gabriel said no such thing. What he did say to Mary in both verses 28 and 30 was "Greetings, you who are highly favored" not "you who are full of grace." The angel Gabriel told Mary that God's grace was upon her, not that she herself was full of grace, meaning that she is the receiver of God's grace, not the one giving grace. No where in scripture is Mary ever said to be full of grace, but that God's favor was upon her.

Sorry, i don't accept your private interpretation . It goes against God. I know you all like to dismiss Mary and I really can't figure out why except deep rooted mistranslation

 

[Ahwatukee]

I believe it is you who twist scripture to say Mary was not Jesus mother. Imo,this is heresy. Hmmmmm might be a good thread, the denial of Jesus mother

Mary was the mother of Jesus in his humanity. But, she was not the mother of God, as Yeshua existed in eternity before he arrived in the flesh.

 

[Magenta]

Here are the questions you clumsily avoided answering:

Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother. He never elevated her above others, but Catholics, in fact, do quite the opposite of Jesus. Not only do Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness. Why is that? It would be helpful if you could honestly address the questions put to you instead of resorting to your evasions. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead? Is it just because your popes tell you to despite what Jesus explicitly said? God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory. Why do you wish to glorify Mary? Scripture explicitly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet your popes tell you to pray to Mary for intercession. Why do you fault those who do as Jesus said, while you disobey Him to follow someone else instead? We see nothing in Scripture to assume or endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. And you seriously wonder why we oppose Roman Catholicism?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry, i don't accept your private interpretation . It goes against God

Private interpretation? The scripture is staring you in the face! Mary was the one who was highly favored by God. Can't you read? Is says the same thing in the interlinear and therefore cannot be misconstrued to refer to Mary as being the one who is full of grace, but is the one receiving it. Now you're just ignoring scripture.

 

[dallasb78]

Jesus and Christ and God are all One and the Same. This is basic Christian doctrine, believed by all Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and most protestants since the first century.

 

[zzz98]

Here are the questions you clumsily avoided answering:

Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother. He never elevated her above others, but Catholics, in fact, do quite the opposite of Jesus. Not only do Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness. Why is that? It would be helpful if you could honestly address the questions put to you instead of resorting to your evasions. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven. Why do you pray to Mary instead? Is it just because your popes tell you to despite what Jesus explicitly said? God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory. Why do you wish to glorify Mary? Scripture explicitly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet your popes tell you to pray to Mary for intercession. Why do you fault those who do as Jesus said, while you disobey Him to follow someone else instead? We see nothing in Scripture to assume or endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. And you seriously wonder why we oppose Roman Catholicism?

Already addressed it you just don't accept it

 

[Magenta]

Already addressed it you just don't accept it

You have not addressed it, you evade and pretend I am saying something else.

Jesus had words for you and your ilk:

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.