The Lie of Parental Forgiveness: Rebuilding the Veil Jesus Broke

[InSpiritInTruth]

I made this thread because it was stirring in me and it was disturbing me how people can say the Lord alienates Himself from us because of sin. It didn't make sense to me because, as was attempted to be presented in the OP, sin was taken care of by Jesus for the very reason of reconciliation. The idea is that the barrier between man and God was torn and now we are reconciled to God, hence why Jesus went to the cross to bear man's sins.

So when people started making posts about sin and breaking fellowship it dawned on me that it is man with his false perception of God who is doing the alienating and not the Lord Himself. He took care of sin, it is our own preconceived ideas of Him that now separates men from Him. They think He is angry, and full of wrath towards them not realizing He sent Jesus into the world not to condemn but save. He loves us, and sin is something that He dealt with so that we could once again walk with Him. To have communion and fellowship and there be no hindrances.

In other words, its the Gospel, its the Good News. Jesus paid the price for our sins and we are reconciled to God. I think we should really consider the Apostle Paul's words...

Romans 6:11King James Version (KJV)

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The problem is Ben, that many false prophets and deceivers have entered into the world trying to rebuild and raise back up, and even breath back life into that old man of sin image by way of false doctrine. Jesus clothed himself with our sins and was made a curse for us so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and so he might also destroy the works of the Devil in us.

A major prophecy in the Bible proclaimed that many of the saints would be overcome and killed by all the lies coming from these false prophets and teachers. And here we are, the prophecy is fulfilled before our eyes in those who have already been led astray by workers of iniquity by believing that wilful sin cannot separate you from God.


If any man builds again that old Adam image that Jesus came to destroy in his own flesh, he also shall be found to be a transgressor.

Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I made this thread because it was stirring in me and it was disturbing me how people can say the Lord alienates Himself from us because of sin. It didn't make sense to me because, as was attempted to be presented in the OP, sin was taken care of by Jesus for the very reason of reconciliation. The idea is that the barrier between man and God was torn and now we are reconciled to God, hence why Jesus went to the cross to bear man's sins.

On the other hand, salvation and reconciliation to God is a different matter than having a proper relationship with God. Scripture is clear God will chastise a son, and that bad behavior, sin, hinders prayer. This "hyper-grace" stuff is "easy believism," rebranded. The Bible neither teaches in any way, shape or form cheap grace, salvation of the unrepentant who, by definition, are the unchanged, who don't even agree with God. There are the virgins without oil in their lamps and Laodiceans, head faith "Christians" who are only deluding themselves, in that self-righteous boat, sinful friends of the world who think the likes of going to church is a "get out of hell free" card, who've never come to that place of the publican who wouldn't lift his eyes to heaven, or the blessed mournful and poor in spirit.

Anyway, hyper-grace? Had never heard of it, actually. If it's new, this the first strike against any doctrine. Also, if grace is cheap, if just doing some lip service to Christ, then it's "I'm okay, you're okay, drinks all around at the bar," you'd be hard pressed to explain how many could be called and few chosen, how there could even be virgins without oil in their lamps. You can't have a big helping of grace and skip on the rest of the gospel, beginning with true repentance towards God. Christianity isn't a buffet, and, if the faith were Johnny-one-verse, that would pretty much make having a whole New Testament just verbose and pointless, wouldn't it? Christ admonished to live by every word that proceeds from God which is speaking to you (everything said to Israel would not be universal commandment), not to live by a few words that suit our "new," watered-down preaching. And, as to new doctrines,

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I'd never heard of Hebrew roots until the 90's, and it was about as valid then, as it was the previous couple thousand years, actually just resurrected, ancient heresies. We should probably all first work on getting the old right. (Then, there won't be the new!)

 

[JesusIsAll]

Sometimes we "mix" the covenants and skewed views of God can occur. Things under the OT were definitely different but we know that scripture is progressive in it's unveiling of the nature and character of our Father and Jesus is to be our true example of Him.

It's a most fundamental precept of exegesis, context, asking who the audience is, what was the time and circumstance. What God gave to Old Testament Israel was not even given to the whole world, ever, the gospel going out to the Gentiles in the New Covenant, which is not Judaism. It's a huge mistake, to try and turn Christianity into some Jew-lite cult, exactly what Paul warned against the bondage of, a snare that breeds self-righteousness, and Paul a Pharisee, at that. It's pretty much the error of all Christian cults, their extra-Biblical false prophets injecting the law where it doesn't belong, at the heart of "doctrines of demons" such legalism.

 

[BenFTW]

The problem is Ben, that many false prophets and deceivers have entered into the world trying to rebuild and raise back up, and even breath back life into that old man of sin image by way of false doctrine. Jesus clothed himself with our sins and was made a curse for us so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and so he might also destroy the works of the Devil in us.

A major prophecy in the Bible proclaimed that many of the saints would be overcome and killed by all the lies coming from these false prophets and teachers. And here we are, the prophecy is fulfilled before our eyes in those who have already been led astray by workers of iniquity by believing that wilful sin cannot separate you from God.


If any man builds again that old Adam image that Jesus came to destroy in his own flesh, he also shall be found to be a transgressor.

Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

That verse is talking about going back under the law... (continue reading)

Galatians 2:21King James Version (KJV)

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!..well said.....and this is what the Queen has to say ....lol

It's a most fundamental precept of exegesis, context, asking who the audience is, what was the time and circumstance. What God gave to Old Testament Israel was not even given to the whole world, ever, the gospel going out to the Gentiles in the New Covenant, which is not Judaism. It's a huge mistake, to try and turn Christianity into some Jew-lite cult, exactly what Paul warned against the bondage of, a snare that breeds self-righteousness, and Paul a Pharisee, at that. It's pretty much the error of all Christian cults, their extra-Biblical false prophets injecting the law where it doesn't belong, at the heart of "doctrines of demons" such legalism.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Amen!..well said.....and this is what the Queen has to say ....lol

View attachment 143037

(Then again, how does one take that? There is a matter of things inscrutable, like whether this puts one in good company, or not? She may actually be saying, "You used the salad fork, AGAIN?!!!")

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..I love your gif......Yes..the Queen and the using of the wrong salad fork..

View attachment 143038 (Then again, how does one take that? There is a matter of things inscrutable, like whether this puts one in good company, or not? She may actually be saying, "You used the salad fork, AGAIN?!!!")

 

[JesusIsAll]

LOL..I love your gif......Yes..the Queen and the using of the wrong salad fork..

Thank you, but it isn't really my gif. I purloined it from a gentleman here who went by Vigilant Warrior. He had a bunch of them, which, for a time, covetous his gifs, turned me into a Christian fingersmith. Which I did repent of, mind you, once the collection was complete.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

That verse is talking about going back under the law... (continue reading)

Galatians 2:21King James Version (KJV)

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

There is more than one way to fall from Grace Ben, read the previous verse....

Galatians 2:17-18[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

 

[valiant]

The qualms of sin confession, ever distancing ourselves from a loving Father. I reference you to this thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/120367-obsession-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html in order to see that sin confession for the believer is unwarranted and unnecessary for the forgiveness of sins (Jesus took care of sin at the cross).

I confess my sin to a court for judicial forgiveness, I confessed to my father for parental forgiveness. If you cannot see the distinction it is you who are misled. Jesus Himself taught us to confess our individual sins to the Father,. That such sins need to be confessed is made plain in 1 John 1.7-2.2 when interpreted in a straightforward manner without the convolutions that certain Americans go to.

This thread is addressing a particular doctrine of sin confession that comes in agreement with the above statement that sin confession does not grant us forgiveness in our judicial standing with God (I.e, we are justified before God).

actually justification and forgiveness are two different things. Justification is positive, forgiveness is negative.

you Americans take words and make them mean the same in every place, quite unjustifiably.

When we come to Christ we do not 'confess our sins'. We admit our sinfulness., which is forgiven as whole

It is as children to a Father that we confess our sins receiving His daily 'forgiveness'

However this doctrine of sin confession makes a distinction that there is judicial forgiveness and then parental forgiveness, in saying this they are saying that we break fellowship with God when we sin (I.e, alienate Him).

Rubbish, I do not break the relationship with my earthly father or 'alienate' him when I sin against him. But I do break 'fellowship'. And it is put right when sin is put right between us . In the same way sin can come between me and God.

One way its proponents word it is to say, "Sin doesn't break union with Christ, but communion with Him."

well, very true. I cannot speak to Him as normal while I am sinning against Him.

This thread will attempt to refute this doctrine as it contradicts the Gospel, what Jesus accomplished at the cross and the entire plan of reconciliation

.

You are talking utter nonsense. It neither contradicts the Gospel nor what Jesus accomplished at the cross. It does absolutely nothing again the plan of reconciliation. They deal with judicial standing, not personal affront.

As the title of this thread suggests, it is attempting to rebuild the veil that Jesus tore by His sacrifice at the cross.

Absolute nonsense. I go to my Father directly through Jesus when I have offended Him. I do not have any difficulty with that. There is no veil between us. It is clear you do not understand personal relations.

You lose a lot by not doing the same. You will never have true revival until you sort yourself out.