Do we spread a false gospel?!!

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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#1
Feb 12, 2009
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#1
To see what I am talking about have a watch of this video and let me know what you think. is it all health and wealth? anyhow watch the video if you can and let me know.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQoOEG8P2I[/video]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQoOEG8P2I
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#2
#2
I heard nothing wrong with what he said.........*shrugs* ..whats the big deal here:confused:
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#3
Feb 12, 2009
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No, MacArthur was correct, What I meant was, how often do we hear a watered down message and a false impression of what it is to be a Christian.

MacArthur has it right, and cameron have it right. Kirk cameron has his own ministry.

Sorry for the confusion.

Phil
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#4
#4
i see..........:)
 
G

glenwood74

Guest
#5
#5
Very convicting video. The truth is what I heard, and it has been a while since I heard it explained so exactly.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#6
Feb 12, 2009
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Amen glenwood. there are alot who don't see it that way.

Phil
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#7
#7
Much of the evangelical world has adopted easy believism devoid of repentance. The health and wealth mantra is false doctrine.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#8
Feb 12, 2009
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#8
Slepsog4 said:
Much of the evangelical world has adopted easy believism devoid of repentance. The health and wealth mantra is false doctrine.
Click to expand...

Amen Slepsog4, we need to get back to the truth of the gospel message.

lol I love that nickname.

Phil
 
I

Indra

Guest
#9
#9
I heard the first 3 minutes, and I agree. I have to say that the best Christians I've seen so far in a great amount of numbers are the buddhist monks, as they live to give up all and don't give in to violence. Learn that materialistic is nothing, except their quest for enlightenment. As Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians". The true Gospel is liberating, powerful and live changing. Not all seed fall in fertile ground. Its not the Gospel that is wrong, its the interpretation that has some lost-in-translation.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#10
Jul 28, 2009
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#10
phil36 said:
To see what I am talking about have a watch of this video and let me know what you think. is it all health and wealth? anyhow watch the video if you can and let me know.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQoOEG8P2I[/video]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNQoOEG8P2I
Click to expand...
That's not what Joel Osteen said!! What a contrast! Actually, the Jews of the O.T. were guaranteed temporal benefits if they were obedient to God. But as stated in this video, no such guarantees are there for Christians. Jesus said that the last would be first.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about these preachers. Each one of us has a responsibility to be biblically literate. If we are exegetically familiar with the bible, it doesn't matter who we listen to. When I listen to preachers on TV, or other media, I will be edified by those things that are true, and filter out and reject those things that I know from the bible to be false. If they stray too far from orthodox biblical Christianity, then I will no longer listen to them. If I am unsure, then I will examine the scriptures hermenutically, and pray for wisdom from God. I know that if I am able to hear and act on that wisdom, then God will grant it to me.

Jesus had a saying that He spoke on many occasions. He said, "He who has ears, let him hear". This saying in Jesus' time meant more than just listening. It meant to hear and obey! I think that the reason that so many people, myself included, don't always have the whole truth, is that we are unprepared to act on it. If we know the truth, and don't act on it, that truth will condemn us. Thank God for Jesus, who saves me from that condemnation.
 
M

machew

Guest
#11
#11
Slepsog4 said:
Much of the evangelical world has adopted easy believism devoid of repentance. The health and wealth mantra is false doctrine.
Click to expand...
It is more accurate to say: The health and wealth mantra, devoid of repentance, is false doctrine.
 
seer

seer

Banned
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Mar 14, 2010
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great thread really interesting and much needed ,,,alan ...
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
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Jan 8, 2009
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these health and wealth people are really hard to deal with before you can talk common sense into them. Here's a hypothetical exchange between a person A (health and wealth believer) and person B.

person A: "Oh i'm in such financial debt I'm praying to God for his blessing and a financial miracle, can you pray for me? ".

person B: "I will, but maybe you should get a job, and stop using credit cards and getting yourself into more debt".

person A: "what?! no, God will provide all my needs , according to His riches and glory, that's a promise, amen, and amen, amen and double amen glory hallelujah "

person B :"you really need to manage your finances better. If you want to be more financially secure then learn to save and ensure your assets outweigh your liabilities"

person B: "where in the bible does it say that?!, get away from me satan!, with all your negative thoughts"

*person A goes off to find a likeminded believer who will pray with them*
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#14
Jul 28, 2009
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I would say MacArthur was wrong on one point. Jesus does actually promise that the things we leave behind for Him will be repaid in this life also.

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternallife.
 
QuestionTime

QuestionTime

Senior Member
#15
Feb 16, 2010
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#15
DinoDillinger said:
I would say MacArthur was wrong on one point. Jesus does actually promise that the things we leave behind for Him will be repaid in this life also.

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternallife.
Click to expand...
I was about to say that you are correct Dino, but after examining this particular reference I can't agree that he will definitely receive a hundredfold in this life. I could be way off interpreting the scripture in this way, but perhaps the receiving a hundredfold is our reward in the future as is eternal life.

Obviously living in eternity we will have material blessings by God. Claiming that these blessings are for this life would require a completely new thread, in order to debate just how the Apostles (12 of 13 martyred 12+Paul) experienced this hundredfold blessing.

Perhaps there is another similar quote in a different gospel that makes this clearer?

Quest
 
P

Pete_Martinez

Banned
#16
Oct 1, 2009
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Phl 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Heb 13:5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."
Heb 13:6 So we can confidently say, "The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?"

I agree with Dino, and we have to be careful because we can go to the other extreme of believing that God is only happy when we are poor and miserable, lacking everything. George Mueller, an amazing man of prayer, delighted to show the world that God was a good master who could be depended on.
At times the Müllers had to pray for their evening food while giving thanks for their noontime food. God sometimes supplied through gifts from the poor, small but precious gifts – perhaps a loaf of bread. But at the end of the first full year of living without a salary, they found they had received more than if they had collected a salary. Mr. Müller said, “I have not served a hard master, and that is what I delight to show.”

I know my thoughts seem scattered but that's what I wanted to share.
 
QuestionTime

QuestionTime

Senior Member
#17
Feb 16, 2010
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#17
Pete_Martinez said:
I agree with Dino, and we have to be careful because we can go to the other extreme of believing that God is only happy when we are poor and miserable, lacking everything.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing Pete, and no, your thoughts didn't seem scattered at all.

I certainly wouldn't want to go to the other extreme where God is only happy if we are poor and miserable. Still, I find it hard to believe that Paul the Apostle received a hundredfold material blessing in this life as a Christian, compared to what he'd have received as a Pharisee. Clearly, as a top ranking Pharisee he would have lived a comfortable life, at least until the Romans came to ransack the city.

We have to remember also, that the promise Jesus made was directly to the Apostles, and indirectly to all of us. Why didn't they get a comfortable life with many possessions?

I know too that John Wesley died with about the equivalent of $35 to his name in the currency of that day. He had many opportunities for wealth hording but he didn't. Any money he had, he directed back into the gospel work. In fact, the last money he had was given to pay the pallbearers who lowered his coffin into the ground.

Personally, I must conclude that either the blessing Jesus speaks of is purely spiritual, or it's a material blessing guaranteed for the next life and not this current life. If this is not the case, there are a lot of Christians out there who have been robbed by God.

Quest
 
M

mpaper345

Banned
#18
Feb 9, 2010
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God does not want anybody to be poor and miserable and will supply all our needs but God does not bless with extravagence because God loves people to be helped with their needs.

God blesses us with our needs and spiritual salvation.

God would not bless someone with a lot of money and material things if people are in need because God loves people and the saints should love people.

If someone heaps money to themselves they do not love people.

God said having food and clothing be content.Our kingdom is spiritual not physical and we should be happy with our needs met and not enjoy the material pleasures of the world.

Matt
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#19
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
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#19
QuestionTime said:
I was about to say that you are correct Dino, but after examining this particular reference I can't agree that he will definitely receive a hundredfold in this life. I could be way off interpreting the scripture in this way, but perhaps the receiving a hundredfold is our reward in the future as is eternal life.

Obviously living in eternity we will have material blessings by God. Claiming that these blessings are for this life would require a completely new thread, in order to debate just how the Apostles (12 of 13 martyred 12+Paul) experienced this hundredfold blessing.

Perhaps there is another similar quote in a different gospel that makes this clearer?

Quest
Click to expand...
Mark 10:30
who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luke 18:30
who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

There ya go QT, and I don't know about Wesley or the Apostles, maybe they they forgot to name it and claim it? ?p

Or maybe their treasure was where their heart was...

Also bumped into this in my bible search, which I thought was curious.

Luke 16:25
But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#20
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#20
DinoDillinger said:
Mark 10:30
who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luke 18:30
who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

There ya go QT, and I don't know about Wesley or the Apostles, maybe they they forgot to name it and claim it? ?p

Or maybe their treasure was where their heart was...

Also bumped into this in my bible search, which I thought was curious.

Luke 16:25
But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
Click to expand...

That is interesting, you are saying that the Apostles did not have enough Faith as they didn't name it and claim it ??
 
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