-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We are all different, I am not into manipulating or controlling, maybe it was the way I was raised. I certainly have my issues but manipulating or controlling another human is repugnant to me to the extreme. I don't want to be in control of anyone, and I don't like anyone trying to control me. So, I don't really understand the manipulation and control game.
S
Hi Samuel
I agree that the devil is well able to manipulate people and influence thought and from that point, behavior
I think we can get some help recognizing that, and exhibiting self control as Galatians tells us
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
22-23
you are right when you say manipulation is about asserting power. that is exactly what it is for and it can devolve into a demonic stronghold if people keep giving in to it
which is where the fruit of the Holy Spirit comes in. we don't arrive at this point instantly, but as we grow in Christ and we mature. I guess you know that though but sometimes age does not matter. it is the heart that responds to God and the leading of the Holy Spirit and who submits to the word and understands that we need to try and please God. I am not talking about salvation here as some seem to confuse the issue of salvation and sanctification
following is the last paragraph in my op:
this is a behavior that is sadly very often tolerated in church and called 'authority' but it is a false authority. we are not to be ruled over by people. every single Christian is supposed to be under authority and that includes the person at the top. no one should be god in your life and the reason Christians should submit to one another and take counsel from each other is to disallow the sad fact of sinful behavior (and the human desire to be god in their own life and the lives of others), to be active as any sort of power play over others
I was trying to distinguish between those who manipulate to gain power and what actual authority is.
I did not really define authority though.
sorry if I was not clear enough. I can see how I might have left out some things to make it clearer.
referring to the Bible, I actually meant those who berate others by USING the Bible. there is a difference. the Bible is not a tool to cow people down or make them fearful of both God and the person who twists what is says in order to make it say something to seem to back up their own sinful behavior
hope that clears it up?
thanks very much for asking questions. always glad to answer questions rather then deflect angry words
I agree that the devil is well able to manipulate people and influence thought and from that point, behavior
I think we can get some help recognizing that, and exhibiting self control as Galatians tells us
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
22-23
you are right when you say manipulation is about asserting power. that is exactly what it is for and it can devolve into a demonic stronghold if people keep giving in to it
which is where the fruit of the Holy Spirit comes in. we don't arrive at this point instantly, but as we grow in Christ and we mature. I guess you know that though but sometimes age does not matter. it is the heart that responds to God and the leading of the Holy Spirit and who submits to the word and understands that we need to try and please God. I am not talking about salvation here as some seem to confuse the issue of salvation and sanctification
following is the last paragraph in my op:
this is a behavior that is sadly very often tolerated in church and called 'authority' but it is a false authority. we are not to be ruled over by people. every single Christian is supposed to be under authority and that includes the person at the top. no one should be god in your life and the reason Christians should submit to one another and take counsel from each other is to disallow the sad fact of sinful behavior (and the human desire to be god in their own life and the lives of others), to be active as any sort of power play over others
I was trying to distinguish between those who manipulate to gain power and what actual authority is.
I did not really define authority though.
sorry if I was not clear enough. I can see how I might have left out some things to make it clearer.
referring to the Bible, I actually meant those who berate others by USING the Bible. there is a difference. the Bible is not a tool to cow people down or make them fearful of both God and the person who twists what is says in order to make it say something to seem to back up their own sinful behavior
hope that clears it up?
thanks very much for asking questions. always glad to answer questions rather then deflect angry words
Last edited:
S
Hi wsblind
hang on a minute there
many of these people do live in fear of loosing their salvation and are dead set on being 'good', forgetting that we are never 'good' enough
while behavior management is often used to try to control, many, and I do mean many, sincere Christians are focused on behavior and trying to be good
I agree that fear, threats, accusations and so on, are all part of the tools of those who wish to dominate others
hang on a minute there
many of these people do live in fear of loosing their salvation and are dead set on being 'good', forgetting that we are never 'good' enough
while behavior management is often used to try to control, many, and I do mean many, sincere Christians are focused on behavior and trying to be good
I agree that fear, threats, accusations and so on, are all part of the tools of those who wish to dominate others
Hi Blind, To you anyone who teaches the truth of the word of God that you do not like to believe, is a rascal of some sort, you need to drop your arrogant attitude and actually study the bible for a change. You have this great perception of your biblical abilities that is bogus, in other words, you are no bible scholar, just someone who likes to mouth off.
E
The sad part, I do believe some are blind to the fact they are doing it.. Saul thought he was doing Gods will when he would do his part of a pharisee (which had the jews scared because of their power. and obedience to the law. Everyone knew, when it came to the law. who were the most righteous, and it was not the sinner, so who could argue against them? (Even Mary was afraid,, for her son.. thats why she lied and said he was sick)
That religious mindset it so strong,, and sounds so good. and so godly, it is easy to be entrapt by it.. and not even know what your doing.
That religious mindset it so strong,, and sounds so good. and so godly, it is easy to be entrapt by it.. and not even know what your doing.
Well said!
These are what the manipulators and leaders can get into - some I think with good intentions although misguided and others not with good intentions. They are just taken over by malice, bitterness and thus take up slandering others in the body of Christ.
Condemnation guilt and shame are not tools of the kingdom of God and the Lord does not sub-contract them out to the devil to use on us. They are the tools of the religious spirit that uses them to try to force others to conform and try to mimic the life of Christ.
Condemnation is the sub-conscious confession that your life is worthy of judgment.
Guilt is the sub-conscious confession that you are not forgiven.
Shame is the sub-conscious confession that the thing you are condemned over is still who you are.
All 3 of these are anti-Christ and anti- the finished work of Christ beliefs.
They are not tools of heaven. The Holy Spirit is NOT called the Spirit of guilt - but He the Comforter is called the Spirit of grace.
These are what the manipulators and leaders can get into - some I think with good intentions although misguided and others not with good intentions. They are just taken over by malice, bitterness and thus take up slandering others in the body of Christ.
Condemnation guilt and shame are not tools of the kingdom of God and the Lord does not sub-contract them out to the devil to use on us. They are the tools of the religious spirit that uses them to try to force others to conform and try to mimic the life of Christ.
Condemnation is the sub-conscious confession that your life is worthy of judgment.
Guilt is the sub-conscious confession that you are not forgiven.
Shame is the sub-conscious confession that the thing you are condemned over is still who you are.
All 3 of these are anti-Christ and anti- the finished work of Christ beliefs.
They are not tools of heaven. The Holy Spirit is NOT called the Spirit of guilt - but He the Comforter is called the Spirit of grace.
Last edited:
The way I look at is that where I do give money, I am satisfied with... and have been for the thirty or forty years I have been supporting some of them. If other people choose to give money out of guilt or some other reason, seriously, don't blame the people who suckered you out of the money. Blame yourself. They certainly never held a gun to your head.
You already know you were giving for the wrong reason, so simply take responsibility for having done it. Calling them names won't correct what you choose to respond to.
You already know you were giving for the wrong reason, so simply take responsibility for having done it. Calling them names won't correct what you choose to respond to.
Thanx for the compliment! Everybody knows those the OSAS's & Hyp******ers go after are the ones that poses the biggest threat to their heresy empire.
Our readers can take a good look at what people like you do & read between the lines to see how your group constantly degrades those that don't agree with you.....
That's what this thread is all about..... manipulation.
Thanx again for the good example.
Our readers can take a good look at what people like you do & read between the lines to see how your group constantly degrades those that don't agree with you.....
That's what this thread is all about..... manipulation.
Thanx again for the good example.
You are loved Stephen. Not just by God, but those who are your brothers, and sisters in Christ. Can't you forget about the differences of Grace vs. works for a while and just show that you love as well? That is what our Lord has told us will distinguish us as His.
Peace to you brother. In Jesus Name.
D
If it helps any, I don't really tolerate it. I more go with "they won't hear anyway, so why say anything?" And then I do this:
And then I move on.
When someone is out to prove themselves, why bother? Do I really care if they do or don't? When it comes to God, it tends to work out that people out to prove themselves don't, so nothing to learn. Nothing to edify. No God, so no caring.
And then I move on.
When someone is out to prove themselves, why bother? Do I really care if they do or don't? When it comes to God, it tends to work out that people out to prove themselves don't, so nothing to learn. Nothing to edify. No God, so no caring.