-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
There is worse than handing over needed-money. (Been there, got the scars still.)
I came to a church after the Discipleship Movement destroyed most of it. It's 35 years later, and, through Facebook, we've reconnected with many who were abused mentally and emotionally by it. Now we see the aftermath. They were destroyed spiritually too. It's like they got stuck at that spot and can't move forward nor backward. And they can't hear from God, but they're still stuck thinking what they're doing (talking the talk without walking the walk) is God.
There is much worse than losing money.
I came to a church after the Discipleship Movement destroyed most of it. It's 35 years later, and, through Facebook, we've reconnected with many who were abused mentally and emotionally by it. Now we see the aftermath. They were destroyed spiritually too. It's like they got stuck at that spot and can't move forward nor backward. And they can't hear from God, but they're still stuck thinking what they're doing (talking the talk without walking the walk) is God.
There is much worse than losing money.
S
well. there is a whole chain of events that get people to the point they rely on their own behavior instead of the Holy Spirit
that's a whole book worth of reading so just skimming over the problem here but true what you say
no one person should ever be in a position to do whatever they want while telling everyone else God told them to do
people like to follow form and form can enslave
We're not supposed to do that when someone makes a mistake, or has a problem in their life.
But we ARE to do that when someone is TEACHING HERESY, and has the POTENTIAL TO HARM OTHERS.
We do this to protect those they may harm... and this is in the bible.
Not only is it Biblical to protect others from harm by pointing out situations or people that could harm them,
but it's just common sense.
How is this relevant to the topic?
We should not turn a blind eye to heretical teaching just because heretical teachers try to "guilt trip" us, or manipulate us, into BEING QUIET.
Last edited:
S
Well said!
These are what the manipulators and leaders can get into - some I think with good intentions although misguided and others not with good intentions. They are just taken over by malice, bitterness and thus take up slandering others in the body of Christ.
Condemnation guilt and shame are not tools of the kingdom of God and the Lord does not sub-contract them out to the devil to use on us. They are the tools of the religious spirit that uses them to try to force others to conform and try to mimic the life of Christ.
Condemnation is the sub-conscious confession that your life is worthy of judgment.
Guilt is the sub-conscious confession that you are not forgiven.
Shame is the sub-conscious confession that the thing you are condemned over is still who you are.
All 3 of these are anti-Christ and anti- the finished work of Christ beliefs.
They are not tools of heaven. The Holy Spirit is NOT called the Spirit of guilt - but He the Comforter is called the Spirit of grace.
These are what the manipulators and leaders can get into - some I think with good intentions although misguided and others not with good intentions. They are just taken over by malice, bitterness and thus take up slandering others in the body of Christ.
Condemnation guilt and shame are not tools of the kingdom of God and the Lord does not sub-contract them out to the devil to use on us. They are the tools of the religious spirit that uses them to try to force others to conform and try to mimic the life of Christ.
Condemnation is the sub-conscious confession that your life is worthy of judgment.
Guilt is the sub-conscious confession that you are not forgiven.
Shame is the sub-conscious confession that the thing you are condemned over is still who you are.
All 3 of these are anti-Christ and anti- the finished work of Christ beliefs.
They are not tools of heaven. The Holy Spirit is NOT called the Spirit of guilt - but He the Comforter is called the Spirit of grace.
it can be difficult to turn off the little voice between the ears. the one that says 'you are not good enough' nobody loves you' 'you should never have been born' 'you are a waste of air' and so on
after this thread, depending on how it goes, I have in mind to start one about our words and aligning our thoughts with scripture instead of the dialogue we can have that comes from sources that have hurt us
you know what they say 'the best defense is a good offense'
I might tone down the use of anti-Christ though, cause that raises hackles real quick. true or not, we deal with people and we have more defense mechanisms than can sometimes be obvious. I knew someone once, that when you would speak to them about salvation, their eyes were literally glaze over. you could not get through and they considered themselves to be a Christian but they wanted to be one their way.
the complicated psyche of humans can take more dodges and turns than a rabbit trying to get away from a pack of dogs
we hide from ourselves as much as those we want to like us or those we want to impress
sometimes we would like to move on from what hurts us, and God keeps us where we are until we face ourselves
that can take years. God has all the time in the world
S
If it helps any, I don't really tolerate it. I more go with "they won't hear anyway, so why say anything?" And then I do this:
And then I move on.
When someone is out to prove themselves, why bother? Do I really care if they do or don't? When it comes to God, it tends to work out that people out to prove themselves don't, so nothing to learn. Nothing to edify. No God, so no caring.
And then I move on.
When someone is out to prove themselves, why bother? Do I really care if they do or don't? When it comes to God, it tends to work out that people out to prove themselves don't, so nothing to learn. Nothing to edify. No God, so no caring.
I always hope someone who needs it will hear but I get what you are saying. A forum is not the easiest place to have a meaningful exchange but it is also a good place for people from all kinds of backgrounds to come together and share
some of the loudest voices are often those who cannot get anyone to listen outside this kind of platform
I suspect you know that.
I agree we need to just move on with some people. it can be a good strategy
S
somehow I missed this last night. sorry about that
we, as Christians have big big problems about how we handle things. it seems prayer is sometimes at the bottom of the list while pointing fingers and screaming heretic takes priority
I realize that is not what you are saying here, but alot of people do seem to handle things that way
churches should have elders that meet with the Pastor and they should pray together and be in submission to one another
no one should be the king at the top of the heap
and no, we should not turn a blind eye to teaching that has hurt people or brought them into bondage or submission to a false authority
S
maybe we can take a look at biblical authority and while we are at, the authority of the Bible.
why do I differentiate? well, the Bible does have alot to say about authority, authorities and the delegation of same
on the other hand, the Bible itself is authority
so, maybe we can look into and try to define for the sake of some clairity (again, this is a subject worthy of books and study so just trying an overview with this thread) how both define our lives as Christians
why do I differentiate? well, the Bible does have alot to say about authority, authorities and the delegation of same
on the other hand, the Bible itself is authority
so, maybe we can look into and try to define for the sake of some clairity (again, this is a subject worthy of books and study so just trying an overview with this thread) how both define our lives as Christians
S
so, to start, what is the authority of the Bible?
for myself, when I think about what that might be, the first thing that comes to mind is this:
2 Timothy 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 All Scripture is [a]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [b]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
so, I'm thinking that the Bible is applicable to all aspects of our lives and we should start with it as our source for instruction on how to live godly lives
for myself, when I think about what that might be, the first thing that comes to mind is this:
2 Timothy 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 All Scripture is [a]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [b]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
so, I'm thinking that the Bible is applicable to all aspects of our lives and we should start with it as our source for instruction on how to live godly lives
E
I think this shows that scripture is first and foremost our first authority. No matter who our leaders are. We should test anything they say with scripture. No one is perfect.. And we shoudl never assume anyone is 100% right, This is the struggle I had growing up. I did not think my pastor could ever be wrong. and boy did it have me enslaved.
S
begs the question, and in all seriousness, where do we get the ideas that someone could be perfect?
you wrote the words 'growing up', so is that a childhood norm, as in trust all adults and you are in for a rude awakening when you reach 18, or is that some subliminal thing we absorb?
I can't say I thought anyone was perfect (just a difference in personalities or maybe upbringing) but I was harmed because of what was LEFT OUT of the Bible and therefore left me vulnerable
I don't like to generalize all that much (as may be become evident in my posts haha) there are generalizations of course, but as a starting point
the amazing thing is that God sees us as individuals. all of nature seems to illustrate the diversity and the care God has put into His creation.