Leadership or Manipulation?

eternally-gratefull · Apr 16, 2017

this is true, but will not take the responsibility away from you, does not give a get out of hell free card,

eternally-gratefull · Apr 16, 2017

So true we should be the most open minded need people their are..

Willie-T · Apr 16, 2017

Jesus never openly exposed individuals?

Do you read your Bible, or do you run to the internet to find agreement?

Jesus cleansing the temple comes to mind. "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves."

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14[“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.] 15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. 16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17“You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18“And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ 19“You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20“Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21“And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. 22“And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it. 23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26“You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. 27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31“So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32“Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

I can see your schooling must never have included much about the definitions of words. An individual is a singular person, not a collective group of hundreds or thousands. And even the hearts of multitudes like that are things we cannot know like He did. You do seem to have this desire to slash out and condemn certain people. I think Jesus told us to, instead, spread the good news of the kingdom.

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

Angela53510 said:

I am about as far from a manipulative person as you can get. In fact, both my daughter and sister have tried to give me lessons on how to manipulate, because "it works so well." All the more reason I cannot and won't manipulate.

But this statement from the OP, seems to be saying, if someone is posting something you don't like, and you DARE to come back with a Biblical answer, then you are manipulating? Please correct me if I am wrong.

To me, the essence of discussing not just doctrine, but how to grow closer to God, and to be more like him, has to come from the Bible. Some people really live the words, such as many of the old saints at church. I know in long term care, I learned so much as a chaplain from the incredible wisdom and love of these people in their 90's.

But, to say someone is manipulating or using a verse not in the way God intended it, I can agree. That is called bad hermeneutics or interpretation, and it goes on constantly in this forum. It is not manipulation. To come back with a quote of the context of the passage, or other supporting verses or information can never be wrong.

I am constantly in the faces of people I do not agree with here. I think they will attest to that! LOL But is that manipulation, or being forthright?

Manipulation is when someone tries to force you to do, or believe something, and basically you don't even realize they are doing it. Because, if they were in your face, you would recognize immediately that they were pushing you to do or believe something you didn't want to do or believe.

Anyway, my example of manipulation is to post a thank you to people who rep you publicly. You may well be thankful, I don't deny that. But, it comes across as "Haha, I got a rep!" I hate it when I rep someone and they come back and publicly thank me. I did it in secret, and I would like it kept between us. If you send me a pm, thanking me, that is very appropriate.

But too many overtones of cliques, and maybe condescension come out of publicly thanking people. I just really find it manipulative. I won't rep the person who does that again. So I am not just talking about this thread, but the flattery that passes as being friends in any thread, in any forum.

"I'd like to thank the people who think my posts are great, by giving me a rep!" Ok, maybe that is kind of hitting people over the head. Since manipulation is hard for me to recognize, maybe I am misinterpreting this. Still, it doesn't sit well with me, in case anyone wants to know! LOL

when you trample hearts and steamroll over people you don't have to manipulate

I don't think I could say it any plainer but here's a song

[video=youtube;iMVc0vG4K_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVc0vG4K_k[/video]

Depleted · Apr 16, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

How to slice-and-dice to fit a philosophy, instead of dealing with the real God of the Bible. (Personally, I have little doubt Jesus was looking at the vipers and whitewashed tombstones as he was talking about them.)

Here's Jesus calling out one individual, and it wasn't done as a lovey-dovy way, (unless, of course, you think God is kind to Satan too.)

[h=1]John 13:27-30 (ESV)[/h][FONT=&quot]27 Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” 28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him. 29 Some thought that, because Judas had the moneybag, Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the feast,” or that he should give something to the poor. 30 So, after receiving the morsel of bread, he immediately went out. And it was night.[/FONT]

Rockrz · Apr 16, 2017

No, some are attempting to relay what God says in His Word... you can take it or leave as it's between you and the Lord if you consider some of His Word to be lies and like to cherry pick yo ways thru scripture.

For me, it matters not what people do either way because I'm not Jesus so it's not my calling to decide who is walking with the Lord and who is not.

We all have the right to make suggestions to others who post on a public forum which is an invitation for anyone to respond to what was posted.

If they don't want people responding, they should not be posting messages in a public form so... ther don't get their little feelings hurt and accuse others of trying to be god over their lives just cause they don't agree.

Exaclty.

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

we can open up a coffin and take a deep whiff

or we can sit at Jesus feet and learn we are not guilty because He is risen

some have written in defense of what they do. they are easy to spot

you write from who you are.

some write from who they want to be or try to be

God will be who He is and if you search for Him will your whole heart and you do not lean on your own understanding, He will bring you out into green pastures beside still waters

It is Easter Sunday. It is not pagan, nor is it a fertility ritual nor is it passover.

I pray God answers the prayers of those who search for Him, long for Him and want Him.

I will never put myself under any person again. I will respect the Holy Spirit in people but I will not respect the manipulative desires in so many.

it is for freedom God has set us free. do not be enslaved to anyone. do not argue, pray instead. do not hate, understand that people are insecure and need to lash out. just don't be one of them

joaniemarie · Apr 16, 2017

Angela53510 said:

I am about as far from a manipulative person as you can get. In fact, both my daughter and sister have tried to give me lessons on how to manipulate, because "it works so well." All the more reason I cannot and won't manipulate.

But this statement from the OP, seems to be saying, if someone is posting something you don't like, and you DARE to come back with a Biblical answer, then you are manipulating? Please correct me if I am wrong.

To me, the essence of discussing not just doctrine, but how to grow closer to God, and to be more like him, has to come from the Bible. Some people really live the words, such as many of the old saints at church. I know in long term care, I learned so much as a chaplain from the incredible wisdom and love of these people in their 90's.

But, to say someone is manipulating or using a verse not in the way God intended it, I can agree. That is called bad hermeneutics or interpretation, and it goes on constantly in this forum. It is not manipulation. To come back with a quote of the context of the passage, or other supporting verses or information can never be wrong.

I am constantly in the faces of people I do not agree with here. I think they will attest to that! LOL But is that manipulation, or being forthright?

Manipulation is when someone tries to force you to do, or believe something, and basically you don't even realize they are doing it. Because, if they were in your face, you would recognize immediately that they were pushing you to do or believe something you didn't want to do or believe.

Anyway, my example of manipulation is to post a thank you to people who rep you publicly. You may well be thankful, I don't deny that. But, it comes across as "Haha, I got a rep!" I hate it when I rep someone and they come back and publicly thank me. I did it in secret, and I would like it kept between us. If you send me a pm, thanking me, that is very appropriate.

But too many overtones of cliques, and maybe condescension come out of publicly thanking people. I just really find it manipulative. I won't rep the person who does that again. So I am not just talking about this thread, but the flattery that passes as being friends in any thread, in any forum.

"I'd like to thank the people who think my posts are great, by giving me a rep!" Ok, maybe that is kind of hitting people over the head. Since manipulation is hard for me to recognize, maybe I am misinterpreting this. Still, it doesn't sit well with me, in case anyone wants to know! LOL

Willie-T · Apr 16, 2017

Perhaps we all have our ways of trying to sway people. (manipulate them) Some use examples of others, some relate their own experiences, some hardly ever type a post without reminding the readers of their education, some make sure everyone remembers they are or were somehow in ministry, some regale us with all their church experience, some speak of personal revelations, some like to post Hebrew words, others flood us with a page and a half of text, some just copy/paste Scripture, and the list could go on and on. LOL

But we all usually say it is the other guy doing it.

Grace777x70 · Apr 16, 2017

Depleted said:

These words of Jesus below constitute being equivalent to calling an individual a viper, hypocrite?

“What you are going to do, do quickly.”

Sorry, I can't see it in these words. There must be some sort of a subliminal message that's not coming across.

stonesoffire · Apr 16, 2017

Angela

I read your post and just want to say that when I first came here...I read from a post that it's the polite thing to do..to thank one for a rep.

So now I'm conflicted. But, will probably just follow my heart.

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

I wouldn't worry about thanking for reps

I have had pms from some to thank me and I see others thanking publicly

I kind of thought that was the polite thing to do

PeterJens · Apr 16, 2017

What is polite or nice for one person, is not for another.
Saying thanks is never a bad thing.

Equally being appreciated for a contribution is also a good thing.
My take is each person has to develop their own style and behaviour
that before the Lord they are happy with.

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

we are provided with a manual on how to conduct ourselves

the key to the entire thing is submission to one another and loving each other in Christ

it is not about intelligence, how much money you have, or slamming others with scripture

it's like watching a scene unfold below, with all the dust rising and the cries of people fighting

you can do battle or you can try to rise above it and understand no truth will be had there

the Bible does not stand up well under the vivisection of those who use for their own purposes

God gives us a level playing field. there are not goals on either end of the field and we are not in competition

the end game of intimidation is to control. if you are feeling controlled, that is not God. simple

saying Jesus called out hypocrites or Paul had a run in with Peter does not give anyone the authority to do the same.

Angela53510 · Apr 16, 2017

I think it is polite to thank someone for a rep. I rarely do it, because it is not my style. But, that being said, it's the "how" you do it that hits me. Are we out to praise someone for praising us, or is this something that should be done in secret? Are we seeking the praises of people, or are we being polite to someone who has benefitted from our post?

The "likes" are all visible. As someone once said, having the likes visible can lead to cliques and groups forming. Witness the BDF! LOL

But a rep is given in secret. So why would I broadcast it? I don't want to be thanked publicly. I am grateful if someone sends me a pm thanking me, but I just don't see where it is necessary to broadcast in the threads who repped you.

If someone writes an exceptional thread, I do rep them, if possible. But, sometimes it needs to be posted again. So, that would be my sincerest form of flattery! Reposting the thread, and maybe commenting on a few things that really made me think, or were very important to me.

So do thank people for a rep! But does it really have to be public?

maxwel · Apr 16, 2017

When someone gives me a rep...

I try not to embarrass them by letting anyone know they agree with me.

: )

royalscot · Apr 16, 2017

acts 2 and acts 10 take context.
when acts 15 asks what law, gave you conviction of sin, to a gentile convert.

and if your a believer, why did you not understand rome 8 v 1 and 2 (in context)

it is your choice to come to your own understand. with gods help.
when did gods word , involve a humans chain of thought, given he gave a teacher called the holy spirit, to help you at a personal level.

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-Galatians 3: By Faith

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

Angela53510 said:

I think it is polite to thank someone for a rep. I rarely do it, because it is not my style. But, that being said, it's the "how" you do it that hits me. Are we out to praise someone for praising us, or is this something that should be done in secret? Are we seeking the praises of people, or are we being polite to someone who has benefitted from our post?

The "likes" are all visible. As someone once said, having the likes visible can lead to cliques and groups forming. Witness the BDF! LOL

But a rep is given in secret. So why would I broadcast it? I don't want to be thanked publicly. I am grateful if someone sends me a pm thanking me, but I just don't see where it is necessary to broadcast in the threads who repped you.

If someone writes an exceptional thread, I do rep them, if possible. But, sometimes it needs to be posted again. So, that would be my sincerest form of flattery! Reposting the thread, and maybe commenting on a few things that really made me think, or were very important to me.

So do thank people for a rep! But does it really have to be public?

get over it

stop trying to make an issue and then controlling the outcome

classic

somebody rep her and tell her how wonderful she is

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

no it's not

how on earth would I know who to thank if they did not tell me who it was from?

perhaps people do not like dealing with you directly even if they like what you say

how can you stand to be so small and pick on everything and anything? I see you doing this in just about every thread you enter

you must have had this bottled up inside you for a long time because people thank each other openly often

so glad you finally found the right place to tell us all how it should be done

nice diversion

sevenseas · Apr 16, 2017

royalscot said:

and He does not seek to control us

He presents Jesus and speaks only of what is true

He does not seek to elevate human beings above God and He always points to Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life

that is what I am trying to get across in spite of all the diversionary tactics to take our eyes of the only One that we are supposed to be worshipping

Leadership or Manipulation?

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