Leadership or Manipulation?

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Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#141
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#141
Grace777x70 said:
Do we actually have a scripture that shows Jesus Himself singling out an individual and calling them "Viper - hypocrite?" Or is Jesus speaking to the mindset and belief system of the self-righteousness?

Jesus never said any of this types of things to His own disciples - we as the body of Christ seem to love doing that for some ungodly reason and then we try to piously pretty it up by saying - " we are standing for the truth" - what they really mean is - "we are standing for truth as I and my group sees it and if you don't have the same thoughts on it - you are a cult and a heretic and that means I can publicly call you names and insult you.

This is a form of manipulating others to "lord it over their faith" and actually bite and devour each other in the body of Christ if they don't "agree with my and my groups belief on a subject." It's foul behavior no matter how much we try to dress it up.

We are free to believe what we want on some subjects ( not the essentials of Christ Himself and His work ) and to have "an opinion" just like everyone else.

One could believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but I would like to see scripture that shows this to be true.... :rolleyes:

( Although - there is scripture about "birds" in Revelation - so....maybe this "bird theory" might be true...lol )

I'll wait for someone to bring forth the verses that show Jesus calling individual people vipers, snakes.
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How about Satan?

Matthew 16:23​
New International Version
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."

New Living Translation
Jesus turned to Peter and said, "Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God's."

English Standard Version
But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

Berean Study Bible
But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Berean Literal Bible
And having turned, He said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For your thoughts are not of the things of God, but the things of men."

New American Standard Bible
But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

You really ought to read your Bible more, instead of watching those no-name videos.:rolleyes:
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#142
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#142
Willie-T said:
I can see your schooling must never have included much about the definitions of words. An individual is a singular person, not a collective group of hundreds or thousands. And even the hearts of multitudes like that are things we cannot know like He did. You do seem to have this desire to slash out and condemn certain people. I think Jesus told us to, instead, spread the good news of the kingdom.
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I can see you try to win your arguments on technicalities. Deceitful, much?
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#143
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#143
Willie-T said:
Perhaps we all have our ways of trying to sway people. (manipulate them) Some use examples of others, some relate their own experiences, some hardly ever type a post without reminding the readers of their education, some make sure everyone remembers they are or were somehow in ministry, some regale us with all their church experience, some speak of personal revelations, some like to post Hebrew words, others flood us with a page and a half of text, some just copy/paste Scripture, and the list could go on and on. LOL

But we all usually say it is the other guy doing it.
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Being educated & articulate isn't manipulation.

If that were the case, you'd have nothing to worry about.:)
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#145
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#145
So, Peter is now satan? I always thought that St. Peter was at the pearly gates seeing who is allowed in to heaven.....:) ...It looks like satan got back into heaven. The truth is that Jesus was not speaking to the individual Peter - He was speaking to satan's influence.

The truth is Jesus did not call him a viper and a hypocrite nor does He call His disciples those names despite the vain attempt in trying to make our Lord out to be something He is not.
 
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Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#146
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#146
Grace777x70 said:
So, Peter is now satan? I always thought that St. Peter was at the pearly gates seeing who is allowed in to heaven.....:) ...It looks like satan got back into heaven. The truth is that Jesus was not speaking to the individual Peter - He was speaking to satan's influence.

The truth is Jesus did not call him a viper and a hypocrite nor does He call His disciples those names despite the vain attempt in trying to make our Lord out to be something He is not.
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Again, you don't know your Bible, do you?

What part of "Jesus turned to Peter and said" don't you understand?

Jesus sharply rebuked Peter & called him an "adversary" because he didn't desire God's will, but his own to keep Jesus alive & not let Him die for the sins of the world.

The context said it all, but you probably didn't read it, because you wanted the verse to mean what you wanted, putting yourself in the same boat as Peter.

And you wonder why I'm so hard on you when you do this all the time?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#147
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#147
So now Peter is both a human and satan at the same time. Wow...talk about total confusion.

Jesus was obviously speaking to satan.

Jesus was speaking to satan's influence on Peter's un-renewed mind. The very same thing satan does to get some people to be filled with malice and then slander others in the body of Christ.

The truth is Jesus did not call Peter ( the human disciple of Jesus ) a viper and a hypocrite nor does He call His disciples those names despite the vain attempt in trying to make our Lord out to be something He is not.
 
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Rockrz

Rockrz

Banned
#148
Dec 3, 2016
1,674
26
0
#148
Jesus sharply rebuked Peter & called him an "adversary" because he didn't desire God's will, but his own to keep Jesus alive & not let Him die for the sins of the world.
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Exactly... Jesus definitely set Peter straight and upbraided him for listening to the devil.
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#149
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#149
sevenseas said:
no it's not

how on earth would I know who to thank if they did not tell me who it was from?

perhaps people do not like dealing with you directly even if they like what you say

how can you stand to be so small and pick on everything and anything? I see you doing this in just about every thread you enter

you must have had this bottled up inside you for a long time because people thank each other openly often

so glad you finally found the right place to tell us all how it should be done

nice diversion
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I had no idea giving reps was such a complicated issue that had so many stipulations attached.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#150
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#150
Some of you get things so confused. Jesus often told people when they were out of line. But He did not attack individuals. He also told James and John they were looking at things wrong when they wanted to call down fire on some unbelievers.

And, again on the mount of transfiguration, even after God had to straighten out Peter, James and John, Jesus did not berate them.... nor run down the mountain to tell others they had been thinking in error. He, instead, comforted and encouraged them. But He did not attack them, nor did he run off to announce that they were "False Teachers" to anyone He could get to listen to Him.......... the way so many people here seem to love to do.
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#151
#151
I can see it can be difficult to get to the point on just about anything around here

when I was a kid, we used to say act your age and not your shoe size

the last page and half is not even a conversation

I mean I don't think anyone should be shut down, but Stephen? I found this really cool expression I thought you might like to add as your signature


 
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sevenseas

Guest
#152
#152
Willie-T said:
Some of you get things so confused. Jesus often told people when they were out of line. But He did not attack individuals. He also told James and John they were looking at things wrong when they wanted to call down fire on some unbelievers.

And, again on the mount of transfiguration, even after God had to straighten out Peter, James and John, Jesus did not berate them.... nor run down the mountain to tell others they had been thinking in error. He, instead, comforted and encouraged them. But He did not attack them, nor did he run off to announce that they were "False Teachers" to anyone He could get to listen to Him.......... the way so many people here seem to love to do.
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what is up with the attacking individuals thing going on?

is someone saying they need permission from Jesus to attack other posters?

seems unlikely :rolleyes:
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#153
#153
Stephen63 said:
Again, you don't know your Bible, do you?

What part of "Jesus turned to Peter and said" don't you understand?

Jesus sharply rebuked Peter & called him an "adversary" because he didn't desire God's will, but his own to keep Jesus alive & not let Him die for the sins of the world.

The context said it all, but you probably didn't read it, because you wanted the verse to mean what you wanted, putting yourself in the same boat as Peter.

And you wonder why I'm so hard on you when you do this all the time?
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you are the only person in the history of forever that has that view

Jesus was not calling Peter the devil. people might be full of the devil but there is just one devil although I will grant you, he seems to be very busy

I suspect it may be because of your apparent ongoing tea for two party with Grace

hope you two aren't neighbors in heaven

oh wait. one of you probably thinks the other one won't get there anyway

please close the door behind you
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#154
#154
I'm not sure I like providing a platform for immature brats to have a fight

you have steered so far off the op, that wild horses might as well have dragged it off

wild horses

probably a lot prettier than this mess

ok. enough of me. enjoy the fight
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#155
#155
oh oh oh hang on

I have something exciting I wanted to share

while I was out shopping today, I started to feel kind of anxious and like something bad was around the corner so I started praying in the spirit like I do when I feel that way

went on for about 10 minutes or so and then I left the store I was in and went to park at Wal-mart and just as I was pulling in to my space this woman runs in front of...not behind, no no, but right in front of my car and I missed her by this much
(hold fingers about 3 cms apart)

it was immediately apparent to me that was the reason for how I felt. the feeling left right after that and I just thanked God that He protected both the woman who thought she was supergirl and me.

and I know the detractors will say oh blah blah blah nothing blah, but that was God! He knew :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#156
#156
Sadly, the last few pages show how manipulation works.. Annd like you said,, it does have power..

Praise God for your warning yesterday,. It is obvious god wanted you to stay alert. Otherwise that girls life. And possibly your sanity could have been destroyed, or seriously damaged..
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#158
#158
eternally-gratefull said:
Sadly, the last few pages show how manipulation works.. Annd like you said,, it does have power..

Praise God for your warning yesterday,. It is obvious god wanted you to stay alert. Otherwise that girls life. And possibly your sanity could have been destroyed, or seriously damaged..
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I was not going fast enough to kill her, but I was about a 1/4 of the way into the parking space

who does that? who runs in front of a car like that?

for sure God protected us BOTH. thing is, she just kept right on running.

it would take more than that to damage my sanity. if my sanity was going to be damaged, that would have happened years ago. :cool:

as for the thread, I never made the points I wanted to make because every time I came on, there was a fight going on or some inane stupid remark and I thought 'what's the point'

pages of nothing achieved, no proper discussion, people slinging rocks because of a personal grudge and someone saying I am full of myself because I thanked a couple of people for reps

bunch of prima donnas

I genuinely like a good discussion, but that would involve people putting themselves aside and being honest

thank God, this forum is not the only place I can discuss, or try to discuss
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#159
#159
sevenseas said:
I was not going fast enough to kill her, but I was about a 1/4 of the way into the parking space

who does that? who runs in front of a car like that?

for sure God protected us BOTH. thing is, she just kept right on running.

it would take more than that to damage my sanity. if my sanity was going to be damaged, that would have happened years ago. :cool:

as for the thread, I never made the points I wanted to make because every time I came on, there was a fight going on or some inane stupid remark and I thought 'what's the point'

pages of nothing achieved, no proper discussion, people slinging rocks because of a personal grudge and someone saying I am full of myself because I thanked a couple of people for reps

bunch of prima donnas

I genuinely like a good discussion, but that would involve people putting themselves aside and being honest

thank God, this forum is not the only place I can discuss, or try to discuss
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I am just thankful you both are ok.. And God helped you..

As for the fights. Just say what you want.. Ignore the fighting, I have certain people I just ignore, because all they want to do is come into thread after thread and attack and belittle a certain group of people. Their war is old.. I just hope eventually everyone puts them on ignore.. it would be much more peaceful.. But I love this thread and want it to continue. It is important people see the problem in much of the church today.
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#160
#160
eternally-gratefull said:

I am just thankful you both are ok.. And God helped you..

As for the fights. Just say what you want.. Ignore the fighting, I have certain people I just ignore, because all they want to do is come into thread after thread and attack and belittle a certain group of people. Their war is old.. I just hope eventually everyone puts them on ignore.. it would be much more peaceful.. But I love this thread and want it to continue. It is important people see the problem in much of the church today.
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I know how close to having an accident things got and so I praise God for His warning in my Spirit. God IS good!

I could list many things that God has protected me in and from.

He is my fortress and my shield

thanks EG for your kind remarks. you are encouraging.

I do have some things I would like to add and I guess I will, after I get some stuff done around the house. can't stand a mess LOL!
 
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