Why does God hate Esau?

[stonesoffire]

Fulfilled in the sense that God doesn't attribute ancestral sins to anyone now as in the OT...all the names of those gentile clans of people reveal an ancestral trait of the nature of flesh when you study their names.

Now God has put all of mankind together and there is no special people. All have sinned. Iniquity is full.

There's a teaching out of sonship fellowships and I believe is truth.

There are only two men in the earth that God acknowledges now...Adam, and Jesus...and we all are in one or the other.

 

[miknik5]

Fulfilled in the sense that God doesn't attribute ancestral sins to anyone now as in the OT...all the names of those gentile clans of people reveal an ancestral trait of the nature of flesh when you study their names.

Now God has put all of mankind together and there is no special people. All have sinned. Iniquity is full.

There's a teaching out of sonship fellowships and I believe is truth.

There are only two men in the earth that God acknowledges now...Adam, and Jesus...and we all are in one or the other.

I'm not sure that I agree in that the genealogy was based on sons in the likeness of their father (and not even based on natural order)

For example, Cain was still alive when GOD accounted Seth as the son of Adam according to the likeness of his father

and when we look st the table of nations we see more clearly the genealogy was not always based on physical order showing that physical likeness was not what GOD considered

therefore Adam though he had sinned in the flesh, still carries forth the seed which would and was always planned to bring forth THE ONE PROMISED from the beginning

 

[stonesoffire]

Not sure I understand your post miknik. I wasn't addressing physical traits at all.

And did Adam carry the seed for Jesus? The ovum came through the woman. The seed is the Word.

 

[miknik5]

Not sure I understand your post miknik. I wasn't addressing physical traits at all.

And did Adam carry the seed for Jesus? The ovum came through the woman. The seed is the Word.

Is Eve "Isaac". Even though GOD never meant Isaac?

THE PROMISED SEED was a SON

 

[FreeNChrist]

Fulfilled in the sense that God doesn't attribute ancestral sins to anyone now as in the OT...all the names of those gentile clans of people reveal an ancestral trait of the nature of flesh when you study their names.

Now God has put all of mankind together and there is no special people. All have sinned. Iniquity is full.

There's a teaching out of sonship fellowships and I believe is truth.

There are only two men in the earth that God acknowledges now...Adam, and Jesus...and we all are in one or the other.

I agree that from God's POV there are only two types of people, those in Adam and those in Christ.

 

[stonesoffire]

Is Eve "Isaac". Even though GOD never meant Isaac?

THE PROMISED SEED was a SON

well, yes. That was my point. Are we misunderstanding each other?

 

[miknik5]

I agree that from God's POV there are only two types of people, those in Adam and those in Christ.

That I agree with too. But all men born into the world initially came from
Adam before they are called by GOD and made a new creation in CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

well, yes. That was my point. Are we misunderstanding each other?

Yes I think i might be misunderstanding you
To me it sounds as if you are saying Adam is like Esau to GOD

 

[miknik5]

From GODs POV Adam needs to be brought into ISRAEL
If he's not, than he will die outside of GOD's PROMISES

But Esau and Jaco came forth physically through "one seed" (one womb)

And Adam was one and out from Adam came many "Adams"

Therefore mankind can't say that they can "save" themselves apart from GOD doing for Adam what Adam never could do for hinself

even from the beginning
Even before he had sinned

because flesh can't inherit the kingdom
And never could

 

[miknik5]

All need to be born sgain

i am not sure I am in agreement to the fuscussion

i am sorry

But out of "Egypt" GOD will call HIS SON
And Jacob was renamed Israel
Befire that..,before GOD called Jacob out and brought him in, he was outside GOD's covenant and promises

GOD may have sent Adam out, and all children born of Eve were born outside, GOD still provided a covering of skins (though temporal) until the PROMISE to mankind would come


All children born of eve (both male and female) are born of perishable seed The sin effected all.
There was only ONE PROMISED SEED spoken of for all "Adams".

 

[miknik5]

If I have misunderstood, please tell me

 

[miknik5]

Adam was a picture of Christ (though flesh)
Adam had one father and was fashioned of the earth (on the earth) and earthly
Adam had two sons:

Cain and Abel

Thats where the two types of flesh are likened to

but still of one flesh
unless they are born again

 

[miknik5]

If I'm slow, forgive me

Ill catch up

But Im having a hard time accepting that Adam/mankind was hated

 

[miknik5]

You guys are good here in this forum. You would be surprised how many don't know what caused God to "hate" Esau or what he did is probably more accurate.

Who is Esau a picture of? Who else sold his birthright?

esau is a picture of disobedient unrepentant man sowing to his flesh

 

[miknik5]

“And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

The idea of love less, is men translating a word with their doctrine behind it, like E. W. Vine did with the word "foreknowledge" "πρόγνωσις" "God's "foreknowledge" involves His electing grace, but this does not preclude human will. He "foreknows" the exercise of faith which brings salvation." It has nothing to do with human will, which Paul explained in Romans 9:11, it has everything to do with God's electing purpose, not because of anything we do, but that His purpose of election might continue.

Let's be honest here, what he is explaining is not foreknowledge, it's acknowledge, the way Vine adds to foreknowledge, it should read, "elect according to the acknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:" Why do men have to add their doctrine to the meaning of a word? I've taught that word meant "loved less" until one time as I was teaching and got convicted when I said it. Then after some more study, I realized that God has every right to hate and who Him hates, who am I to make God like a man. He has revealed Himself as hating certain things and I just need to submit to that, whether I fully understand it or not.

Because that is what people are saying when they add human effort to God's choice of people, because it's not electing someone if it's on the bases of what they will do, that's not the election Paul talks about. Paul says God's electing grace is, "they were not yet born and had done nothing good or bad. Why? "in order that God's purpose of election might continue" But why? "not because of works (faith/birthright) but because of Him who calls." Paul makes sure that we know that it has nothing to do with us, it's all about God and His grace.

Is there no word for like? In the Hebrew or Greek? If God loved Esau less, why didn't the Holy Spirit use a word for "like" because that's what "loved less" means, instead of loving them, you just like them. Why haven't the translates used the word "like" or placed a foot note saying that it could be translated "loved less" because it can't. Why is it hard for us to understand that God hates? The Bible is clear He hates wickedness/sin and the wicked/sinners. We are all born wicked/sinner and God hates it, but in His love He gave His Son to the world not to condemn the world but that through Him the world might be saved. This is how God has demonstrated His love towards the world, interesting part is it does not say He died for the world, it just says that God gave His Son. If you read the footnote on John 3:16 in the ESV it says that it could read "For this is how God loved the world", that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

You are right

the word does not say HE died for the world
Though it does say that ONE died...therefore all were dead
All were dead

And the way to the tree of life was blocked until GOD would reveal the WAY to those whom
GOD calls

 

[miknik5]

CHRIST did not pray for the world. But only for those whom THE FATHER had given HIM out of the world

 

[miknik5]

And he loved and trusted God so much he push out the herds, the wives and children to Esau to see if he'd kill them or let them come home. I feel that warm fuzzy love even know. (He was a dog!)

And yet GOD revealed something about Esau in that moment that Jacob/Israel spoke with his brother that made him send Esau ahead saying he would "catch up" with him

Jacob never did
in fact he took his family and herd and settled somewhere away from Esau's flocks

Do you know why?

 

[miknik5]

Because Esau had his eyes on the wrong "treasures"

 

[DJ2]

I think it's interesting that many are saying it was because of something Esau did or because of the condition of his heart. Paul refutes this in Romans 9 and makes it clear that God hated him before he had done anything good or bad and before he was born.

​But why did He hate him??

 

[Ahwatukee]

I think it's interesting that many are saying it was because of something Esau did or because of the condition of his heart. Paul refutes this in Romans 9 and makes it clear that God hated him before he had done anything good or bad and before he was born.

You hit it on the nail-head ForthAngel! The teaching regarding this is that, it had nothing at all to do with anything that Esau did or didn't do, but has to do with God's sovereign election. God has mercy upon whom he wants to have mercy and He hardens whom He wants to harden. - Rom.9:10-13