Why does God hate Esau?
- Thread starter stonesoffire
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I think this is the whole point.
No there really isn't. You are imposing things on the scripture that clearly aren't there. If you honestly look at Romans 9 and many of the things Paul, Jesus, and others have written/said, you can't come to any other conclusion. You think man deserves something from God and you tend to push equal ultimacy on me and others from my school of thought which we don't believe. The fact that God lets us even be born in the first place is an act of mercy on his part, much less live out our lives. In his mercy, he restrains the evil of men. This doesn't mean he saves everyone.
You quoted Romans 11 here. Did you read the whole chapter or rip out a verse that helps you feel better?
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”
No there really isn't. You are imposing things on the scripture that clearly aren't there. If you honestly look at Romans 9 and many of the things Paul, Jesus, and others have written/said, you can't come to any other conclusion. You think man deserves something from God and you tend to push equal ultimacy on me and others from my school of thought which we don't believe. The fact that God lets us even be born in the first place is an act of mercy on his part, much less live out our lives. In his mercy, he restrains the evil of men. This doesn't mean he saves everyone.
You quoted Romans 11 here. Did you read the whole chapter or rip out a verse that helps you feel better?
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”
Yes, this is true.
However, the seed for Jesus came from Father in heaven. If you look at the greek for word in one of the scriptures...it says sperma. Not all the words just certain instances. I would have to look to find it...just can't remember at the moment which scripture that is.
It sounded to me like you were saying that adams "sperm" had something to do with Jesus.
I may of misunderstood you.
However, the seed for Jesus came from Father in heaven. If you look at the greek for word in one of the scriptures...it says sperma. Not all the words just certain instances. I would have to look to find it...just can't remember at the moment which scripture that is.
It sounded to me like you were saying that adams "sperm" had something to do with Jesus.
I may of misunderstood you.
2Co 5:18 All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to himself through the Messiah and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are the Messiah's representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah's behalf: "Be reconciled to God!"
2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.
So, is this saying that God chooses some to go and tell the world that Jesus saves?
Or does He just hand pick his own...and the world goes to hell.
2Co 5:19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are the Messiah's representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah's behalf: "Be reconciled to God!"
2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.
So, is this saying that God chooses some to go and tell the world that Jesus saves?
Or does He just hand pick his own...and the world goes to hell.
I agree...here is one opinion on this subject which makes much sense to me.
Exodus 3:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "But I know that the king of Egypt will not permit you to go, except under compulsion.
Exodus 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.
The way the Lord stated this isn’t saying it was the Lord who made Pharaoh not submit to Moses’ demands at the first. The Lord is simply saying He knew Pharaoh and that Pharaoh was so arrogant, he would not bow to the demands of any God. Pharaoh considered himself a god and made the people worship him as such.
Later, there are scriptures that say God hardened Pharaoh’s heart (Exodus 7:13; 9:12; 10:1, 20, 27; 11:10; and 14:8), but this is only after Pharaoh hardened his own heart against the Lord.
All the Lord did was take the choice Pharaoh had already made (to proclaim himself as god) and held him to it.
Likewise, the Lord doesn’t override our will unless we have already passed a point of no return. Then He can take our hardened hearts and harden them even further to accomplish His will, as He did with Pharaoh.
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.
