Why do humans need a SAVIOR?

[followjesus]

God creates man in His own image and likeness* and creation is "very good" so ..what happened that 5 chapters later, God destroys man from the face of the earth because man is continually evil all the time? are these humans still Gods image being sinners? absolutely not scripture is really clear and simple if its believed


Genesis 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."...v31"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good...."


So man is made in the image of God, and all of creation is very good. God places man in the garden and warns man of the only danger....


Genesis 2:16-17 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE."


the serpent takes this warning meant to make man safe and deceives the mind until...


Genesis 3:4-6 "And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. "


after this point man becomes afraid of God, is expelled from the right to eat the tree of life and live forever like God


Genesis 3:22-24 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."


Now mortal, in fear of death adam and eve begin having children, but they are no longer the " very good" image of God, they now are the original sinners and have the knowledge of good and also evil in thier minds and the children are made in adams own image of fallen mortal man, excluded from etermal Life.


Genesis 5:1-3 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son IN HIS OWN LIKENESS , after HIS IMAGE; and called his name Seth"


So adam the father of all humans, chose sin and death for man who all spring from Him and live under the curse in Genesis 3 the curse of death. we are all of adam according to the flesh and blood. These things are the reason why the new testament tells us the importance of things Like " the flesh and blood of Jesus is our answer" why " were born again in a new spirit and life, why the new testament says " were being transformed into the image of Christ Jesus, the Son of God who is His perfect image.


all of the new testament makes really great sense when you realize the problem and when it began, how, why ect. the things in the new testament are Gods response to what happened to change man from the image of a holy God, to the image of sinful man. adam sold us into sin and death, Jesus paid the redemption price to deliver us from that. adam imparted the sinful nature, Jesus imparts the nature of God. Adam sentanced mankind to death, Jesus offers pardon and eternal Life. adam lost the right to eat from the tree of life, Jesus restores that right. Jesus is the answer for every problem mankind has.


to deny the simplicity of things like " man fell from Grace in the garden and His descendants are condemned" leaves no sense in the new testament teachings of "salvation" redemption" rebirth" reconciliation" ect the new testament makes sense with the Old without it nothing jives or ties together. God didnt originally make adam so that adam needed to be saved from anything, adam made that choice on His own with prompting from satan. Man fell on his own, so God sent Jesus to pick us up and heal us from the curse of adams flesh.....


Things such as the Law, arent the beginning of the story but the middle. the beginning is man in perfect relationship with God, standing in Grace having all things lavished upon Him, and in truth, the beginning of the story is where Jesus is leading us back into the presence of God, with eternal Life being made in Gods image.....again. what Grace God has shown when He gave man everything, man threw it away..Then sent His Son to suffer and die to pay that debt, and offer us a return to Gods true Children made in His image.


were sinners when were born, and were children of God when were re born in Christ. He is Savior because man was already lost before He appeared. already under penalty of death, so He came and paid that price and redeemed us from the enemy.......

God bless you

 

[Johnny_B]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Was eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil the same as breaking the law?After choosing to listen to the wrong voice and suffer the consequence of sin,how would man fulfil GOD's perfect standard of righteousness perfectly on his own without help?
The spirit Is willing but the flesh Is weak.

 

[followjesus]

Was eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil the same as breaking the law?After choosing to listen to the wrong voice and suffer the consequence of sin,how would man fulfil GOD's perfect standard of righteousness perfectly on his own without help?
The spirit Is willing but the flesh Is weak.

Not the same, The command in eden came not to a sinner , but to adam made in Gods Likeness. the Law of moses is different, it comes to those already made a sinner. the command in the garden isnt at all oppressive to adam, its like if you have a dangerous chemical and a great employee of coarse you will tell them up front " this chemical is deadly, it will kill you" you dont tell the employee because they are careless, you tell them for safety reasons.

The Law however is a restraint to sinners that came far later. in the garden we see the perfect state of man, we see Him consume the knowledge of good and evil, fall from His perfect state, cursed to mortality. and then well before the Law God says this of mankind

Genesis 6:5-7 "And GOD saw that the WICKEDNESS OF MAN was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY EVIL continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."


This is the reason the law came to mankind, the law is a restraint to the sinfulness living in mankind because quite simply mankind or "adams kind" are sinful at the heart and without law, the isrealites would have been the same way as those before the flood. the Law is given to mans minds to begin revealing what happened to us. it does many things but one thing is to show man that we are fallen. holiness is our original state, and sinfulness is the result of the consumption of the Knowledge of Good and also evil. sinful hearts and minds desperately need Law to restrain sin because it destroys those around us, and even our own soul. the law was sort of like " a mediator" it comes to the sinful " stiff necked " people the rebellious at heart, to prepare them for the Savior by revealing that we fell, and deperately need a savior sent from God.

in the Garden if you look closely at what the serpent did, He corrupted thier thinking. He inserted doubt, then offered a lie that directly opposed God and also He made it seem to eve as if God was keeping something good and of value from Her. He says " surely you will not die ( pshhh) God knows when you eat it, it will make you like him" so the appearance in her mind is that God is actually lying to them to keep something good from them. it changed thier minds into both faith and doubt, good and evil or in other words, it created a double mind, a double nature.

Sin feels good to us if were honest, and thats why there is such a pull from sin to us because it appeals so greatly to what is now in us. the Law of moses was never going to be obeyed by mankind, it was given to show us the futility of trying to live holy, while bound to the sin in us. The law prepared the hearts of man for Jesus. Obeying the mosaic Law has nothing to do with it since Jesus fulfilled that, christians follw Jesus, and the gospel. in the gospel it isnt like the law the law is to restrain flesh, the gospel is to produce spirit.


If we spend our lives focused on developing in the spirit of the gospel.......the law is already fulfilled all of its requirements were met By Our Savior and Lord, He says " Obey MY words" " keep MY teachings" He is not re teaching the Law of Moses at all, He is teaching us what Man is meant to be well before the law was given. The gospel teaches us to simply live the lives of Gods children, and forsake the life of sin that lead us to Him.

 

[followjesus]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

and why did all sin?...because were sinners before we are in Christ. sin is natural to adams flesh, it is un natural to the spirit of God. its our place in this to follow after the spirit if we have received it, doing that starves the flesh. or we can feed the flesh by disregarding righteousness that is a gift through Christ, we can resist the spirit and continue on in pleasures and selfishness that were all prone to.

addictions are a good example there is one thing in common with addiction, you cant break an adiction, unless you stop doing the drug, or the drink, or the sex, or the ..whatever else there is. the first step is to accept in the mind " i want to be sober" the next step is to simply stop using or drinking sure at first its One day, even one hour at a time. but after a week something begins to change it doesnt have quite the same pull or maybe it does but sometimes you forget or it comes and goes.....but after you stop depending on the substance, your body begins to recognize that substance doesnt belong here and the strength of the addiction begins to fade.

Repentance isnt effortless its a hard fight, a hard struggle yes we have the spirit to follow and to strengthen us but Jesus pirpose wasnt to call sinners into salvation, He came to call sinners to repentance. to call us to change beginning with the mind and heart and resulting in lives lived in righteousness rather than sin. until the church accepts that sin isnt acceptable in the same temple as the holy spirit ( Our bodies) we have yet to grasp salvation. doesnt mean we have to be flawless, but we are capable of So much because Christ lives in us. <<thats a truth and in Him there is power to walk upright Lives and commune with God in all areas.


if a christian wouldnt do something in Church, they shouldnt do it in privacy because God is not more present in a church, than a christian home, He is personally with believers in darkness and light, right and wrong. we are always in Gods presence and that is why our actions and also words matter in every way.

 

[posthuman]

after this point man becomes afraid of God, is expelled from the right to eat the tree of life and live forever like God

"the right to eat" ??
did man have a "right" to take of the second tree? ever?
the first tree?

was Adam dumb? why didn't they take of the second tree?

why does God expel the man and the woman & seal up the garden?

does God do this because He is afraid man will become powerful?
because He doesn't want man to live forever?
or because He loves them?

isn't God saving man from something?

why didn't the serpent tempt Eve to eat from the other tree?
or did he?
did the serpent want them to eat from both trees? why the tree of knowledge first?

if the first tree poisoned the man and the woman - so that they would surely die - what would happen if they ate of the second tree in that poisoned state?
did they have opportunity? motive?
was Adam stupid not to have eaten of the other tree before God came and judged them, or was he wise not to?

is God always loving? always saving?
how is He loving and saving when He places the man in the garden, without a flaming sword guarding the trees, and how is He loving and saving when He does place cherubs guarding the way to it?

 

[followjesus]

Not the same, The command in eden came not to a sinner , but to adam made in Gods Likeness. the Law of moses is different, it comes to those already made a sinner. the command in the garden isnt at all oppressive to adam, its like if you have a dangerous chemical and a great employee of coarse you will tell them up front " this chemical is deadly, it will kill you" you dont tell the employee because they are careless, you tell them for safety reasons.

The Law however is a restraint to sinners that came far later. in the garden we see the perfect state of man, we see Him consume the knowledge of good and evil, fall from His perfect state, cursed to mortality. and then well before the Law God says this of mankind

Genesis 6:5-7 "And GOD saw that the WICKEDNESS OF MAN was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY EVIL continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."


This is the reason the law came to mankind, the law is a restraint to the sinfulness living in mankind because quite simply mankind or "adams kind" are sinful at the heart and without law, the isrealites would have been the same way as those before the flood. the Law is given to mans minds to begin revealing what happened to us. it does many things but one thing is to show man that we are fallen. holiness is our original state, and sinfulness is the result of the consumption of the Knowledge of Good and also evil. sinful hearts and minds desperately need Law to restrain sin because it destroys those around us, and even our own soul. the law was sort of like " a mediator" it comes to the sinful " stiff necked " people the rebellious at heart, to prepare them for the Savior by revealing that we fell, and deperately need a savior sent from God.

in the Garden if you look closely at what the serpent did, He corrupted thier thinking. He inserted doubt, then offered a lie that directly opposed God and also He made it seem to eve as if God was keeping something good and of value from Her. He says " surely you will not die ( pshhh) God knows when you eat it, it will make you like him" so the appearance in her mind is that God is actually lying to them to keep something good from them. it changed thier minds into both faith and doubt, good and evil or in other words, it created a double mind, a double nature.

Sin feels good to us if were honest, and thats why there is such a pull from sin to us because it appeals so greatly to what is now in us. the Law of moses was never going to be obeyed by mankind, it was given to show us the futility of trying to live holy, while bound to the sin in us. The law prepared the hearts of man for Jesus. Obeying the mosaic Law has nothing to do with it since Jesus fulfilled that, christians follw Jesus, and the gospel. in the gospel it isnt like the law the law is to restrain flesh, the gospel is to produce spirit.


If we spend our lives focused on developing in the spirit of the gospel.......the law is already fulfilled all of its requirements were met By Our Savior and Lord, He says " Obey MY words" " keep MY teachings" He is not re teaching the Law of Moses at all, He is teaching us what Man is meant to be well before the law was given. The gospel teaches us to simply live the lives of Gods children, and forsake the life of sin that lead us to Him.

when you compare this that God says of Creation including man, in the beginning

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

with this which He says 5 chapters later, its pretty clear something changed dramatically.

Genesis 6:5-7 "And GOD saw that the WICKEDNESS OF MAN was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY EVIL continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

if what im saying doesnt make sense, think of the terminology used throughout the new testament its always about " rebirth" repentance" reconciliation" a new creation in christ created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness...notice the theme something went wrong or we wouldnt need to be saved, or reconciled terms like reconciliation tell us there was a complete relationship beforehand, something broke us apart, and Christ came to reconcile that break. the break is found in chapter 3 of genesis, we broke faith with God, and by Keeping Faith in Christ we are redeemed.

In Christ were reconciled to the relationship adam Had with God before He gave it away for the taste of fruit. from the point of view of the law God is a fiery cloud of darkness, thunders roll and lighting strikes in his presence, terrified were those under the law when God came near, this again reflects adams nature after the fall, His first response was to be afraid and Hide from God. by the time the law was given sinfulness had grown and so the fear and terror, the hiding away was greater. under the law the people begged moses to not let God speak to them anymore because they said " we will die" another reflection of adams fall. He became afraid after He sinned because He knew what God had said " you will surely die" this became a fear of Gods word in mankind by the time the law was given.

many are still terrified of Gods word in christian churches because they have yet to accept Jesus as Lord. In the gospel Jesus came and sat and ate with and befriended man even though we are sinful, he doesnt appear like at horeb a terrifying deadly storm, but a humble savior who came to lay down His own Life for fallen man. two perceptions exist. fallen mans perception corrupted by sin, and the perception of truth that Jesus gave us in all the authority and power of God. The gospel and the Law highlight those 2 perceptions God as a terrifying thunder storm and darkness , and the Other the truth of God a Humble and Loving savior who lays down His Life to save us. The gospel is for Gods children Just as Gods word in the garden was, the law is against sinners who reject the Word of God.

 

[followjesus]

"the right to eat" ??
did man have a "right" to take of the second tree? ever?
the first tree?

was Adam dumb? why didn't they take of the second tree?

why does God expel the man and the woman & seal up the garden?

does God do this because He is afraid man will become powerful?
because He doesn't want man to live forever?
or because He loves them?

isn't God saving man from something?

why didn't the serpent tempt Eve to eat from the other tree?
or did he?
did the serpent want them to eat from both trees? why the tree of knowledge first?

if the first tree poisoned the man and the woman - so that they would surely die - what would happen if they ate of the second tree in that poisoned state?
did they have opportunity? motive?
was Adam stupid not to have eaten of the other tree before God came and judged them, or was he wise not to?

is God always loving? always saving?
how is He loving and saving when He places the man in the garden, without a flaming sword guarding the trees, and how is He loving and saving when He does place cherubs guarding the way to it?

theres alot of random questions there lol.


i really dont know what ur saying about a first and second tree ?
"the right to eat" ??
did man have a "right" to take of the second tree? ever?
the first tree?

Heres the scripture though

"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of LIFE also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

and heres what God told adam about the trees in the garden

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

clearly the only tree forbidden is the knowledge of good and evil. EVERY other tree adam is free to eat of, that would include the tree of life. this is further supported here after adam transgresses.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."


clearly again adam had free passage to the tree of life, and the right to eat of it before this point.

why did he no longer allow adam to eat and live forever? because of exactly what this op is saying Man now was part good, part evil why would God give eternal Life to sinful man? wouldnt that just ensure an eternity of terrible sinful existance where every evil would be done? it would be a bad choice to give sinners eternal Life Knowing that they now had the desire to sin << sin is bad stuff its the source of Murder, rape, lies, cheats, scams, adultery and everything else that is so popular in the world today. I dont think God is looking to create eternal chaos and violence ect.. thats more like eternal Hell.

concerning the tree of Life above you see that adam lost His access to it. Look here though

revel;ation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." and again

revelation 22:14 "Blessed are THEY THAT DO his commandments, that they may have right to the TREE OF LIFE, and may enter in through the gates into the city. "

adam lost that right for mankind, Jesus offers it again.

idk really about half of ur questions im not sure at all what u mean by the first and second tree because there was only ever 1 tree that was off limits in the garden until after the expulsion when God then blocked mans path to eat of the tree of life and live forever. and just consider what it is that is most important that Jesus offers ...eternal Life. clearly again adam lost something for man, Jesus won it back and offers it to us is the point. the only thing we gained from adams fall, was fear of God that leads to wisdom, and wisdom leads to doing Gods word, which is and has always been to love one another as we love oursleves.... and that eliminates fear when we come to Jesus, accept Him and begin learning the Gospel, and then actually practice the things we learn in the gospel again Loving one another as Jesus taught us to Love. that then eliminates fear because fear comes from disobedience Just like it did to adam notice His first response after eating when God comes near. hes afraid and hides......

 

[resurrection33]

We need a Savior, because if we didn't have one, Satan would never stop torturing us over the sins we've committed in our lives.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Because we are dead and need life. Life that only the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ has.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

That was an excellent question that post-man asked,about why didn't the devil tempt eve to eat of the tree of life and I thought on It and then I looked at scripture where GOD said,they could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I remembered where the bible said,where there Is no law,sin Is not Imputed,so then If the devil had tempted eve to eat from the tree of Life,sin would not have been Imputed but tempting her to eat from the tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil,sin would be and was Imputed.

 

[followjesus]

We need a Savior, because if we didn't have one, Satan would never stop torturing us over the sins we've committed in our lives.

is that all there is to it? freedom from guilt over sin?

 

[followjesus]

That was an excellent question that post-man asked,about why didn't the devil tempt eve to eat of the tree of life and I thought on It and then I looked at scripture where GOD said,they could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I remembered where the bible said,where there Is no law,sin Is not Imputed,so then If the devil had tempted eve to eat from the tree of Life,sin would not have been Imputed but tempting her to eat from the tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil,sin would be and was Imputed.

im not sure that i understand what you and post human are saying regarding them being " tempted" to eat of the tree of life....as the scripture says they already were given the freedom to do that. Satan only tempts us to do what is wrong according to God. the only possibility of tempting them was the tree of good and evil it was the only forbidden thing to them. all else was Given to them the whole earth and dominion over it all. If they were tempted to eat of the tree of life.....they would simply be doing what God said they could freely do. there is only one possibility of causing man to transgress in the garden, and thats what satan did in order to bring " you will surely die" upon mankind

what i mean is " you must not eat this fruit, or you will surely die" << satan Knows this is true.

devils goal " I simply need to get them to eat the fruit and theyll die"

Once they have eaten all that is left of that command is " you will surely die" this is why Jesus explains that satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning, in the garden He lies to man about Gods Word, and kills Him with it. thats the danger of false doctrine. People still echo satans scheme today. creating doctrines that appeal to mans sinfulness, that make people comfortable with the sin in thier lives rather than accepting the truth that gives true Life.

 

[followjesus]

That was an excellent question that post-man asked,about why didn't the devil tempt eve to eat of the tree of life and I thought on It and then I looked at scripture where GOD said,they could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I remembered where the bible said,where there Is no law,sin Is not Imputed,so then If the devil had tempted eve to eat from the tree of Life,sin would not have been Imputed but tempting her to eat from the tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil,sin would be and was Imputed.

one other thing regarding " where there is no Law, there is no sin" the law was never Given until 430 years after abraham. before abraham was the flood, before the flood there were ten generations of humans who lived hundreds of years. The Law is not the command in the Garden. the law that came later is based on the transgression of the command. the law came to sinners, not the righteous.

1 timothy 1:9-10 "Knowing this, that THE LAW IS NOT MADE FOR A RIGHTEOUS MAN , but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and FOR SINNERS, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

or in romans paul says " the law was added because of trespass" The commandment in the Garden was a safeguard for mans life given not to a sinner, but to one made in Gods image and likeness. the trespass in the Garden created sinners, the deception changed the mind and thus changed mankind from what God created " very good" to what we see in genesis 6. Sin began after they transgressed and after sin came the Law, after the Law, came the gospel of our salvation from sin and death. paul talks in depth about this in romans, but His explainations of things have to be considered on a foundation of what Jesus Christ taught or they are hard to get your head around.

so many look to pauls words and omit Jesus words, thats a terrible error. everything is built upon Jesus and the gospel without that part nothing else rings clear and true, He is our light for understanding

 

[followjesus]

That was an excellent question that post-man asked,about why didn't the devil tempt eve to eat of the tree of life and I thought on It and then I looked at scripture where GOD said,they could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I remembered where the bible said,where there Is no law,sin Is not Imputed,so then If the devil had tempted eve to eat from the tree of Life,sin would not have been Imputed but tempting her to eat from the tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil,sin would be and was Imputed.

"tempting her to eat from the tree of the "knowledge" of good and evil,sin would be and was Imputed."

amen that was His goal all along, to impute sin upon Gods Beloved mankind, because by imputing sin through temptation and decieving the mind He imputed death to Gods beloved. sin and death are eternally bound together.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

im not sure that i understand what you and post human are saying regarding them being " tempted" to eat of the tree of life....as the scripture says they already were given the freedom to do that. Satan only tempts us to do what is wrong according to God. the only possibility of tempting them was the tree of good and evil it was the only forbidden thing to them. all else was Given to them the whole earth and dominion over it all. If they were tempted to eat of the tree of life.....they would simply be doing what God said they could freely do. there is only one possibility of causing man to transgress in the garden, and thats what satan did in order to bring " you will surely die" upon mankind

what i mean is " you must not eat this fruit, or you will surely die" << satan Knows this is true.

devils goal " I simply need to get them to eat the fruit and theyll die"

Once they have eaten all that is left of that command is " you will surely die" this is why Jesus explains that satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning, in the garden He lies to man about Gods Word, and kills Him with it. thats the danger of false doctrine. People still echo satans scheme today. creating doctrines that appeal to mans sinfulness, that make people comfortable with the sin in thier lives rather than accepting the truth that gives true Life.

I can only give my opinion as to what posthuman said,and I think he was asking,why did the devil tempt them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,Instead of the tree of life first ?

And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever

But If adam were disobedient to the WORD of GOD and eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,then sin and death would enter and then If he had tried to eat of the tree of life after being disobedient, he would have lived forever In that condition.

GOD had mercy and sent HIS WORD to once again make Everlasting Life available to whosoever bellieves In the WORD of GOD.
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[followjesus]

I can only give my opinion as to what posthuman said,and I think he was asking,why did the devil tempt them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,Instead of the tree of life first ?

And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever

But If adam were disobedient to the WORD of GOD and eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,then sin and death would enter and then If he had tried to eat of the tree of life after being disobedient, he would have lived forever In that condition.

GOD had mercy and sent HIS WORD to once again make Everlasting Life available to whosoever bellieves In the WORD of GOD.
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"I can only give my opinion as to what posthuman said,and I think he was asking,why did the devil tempt them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,Instead of the tree of life first ?

And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever"


Thats what im not understanding death only came because God said " if you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die" <<< everything is created and comes into existance, because God said it beforehand. He is the creator, when He speaks...what He says is true without fail. Adam was told plainly every tree you are free to eat, but not this one tree or you will die. satan cant possibly temot a person to do what God already Gave them the freedom and right to do.

Think of what happened after the transgression, first God curses the serpent, then eve, and then adam with death, immediately after this, God expels them from the garden, and makes it impossible to eat from the tree of life. thats why adam died, He was no longer able to eat the tree of life and live forever. He already beforehand was free to do so, death only came because of transgressing Gods word that has to be true, " if you eat this you will die" satan isnt looking to keep man alive forever, exactly the opposite His goal was to kill man.

the only possibility of that at this point in time, was to deceive them into doing what God sais would kill them. its the only reason satan tempted them at all.

can i ask why you think if he ate from the tree of life he could never transgress? realizing that people in hell after all is said and done will be alive forever, just in an eternity of torment rather than Gods New Heaven and earth. its like someone who says " I believe in Jesus" but then anything Jesus says " doesnt apply to them" belief has to be real or its disbelief. the truth is that the core of our belief, is where our actions come from they are tied to one another. Believing in Jesus comes to this point

Luke 6:46-49 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, AND DOETH THEM, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49But he that heareth, and DOETH NOT, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."

this is one example, but it is a consistant teaching of the gospel from Jesus to paul, to peter and the rest. eternal Life comes because we believe, and obedience is the fruit of real belief. who believes that Jesus is Lord and savior, yet disregards everything he taught? a fool does that. in essence they are saying "yes i believe Jesus is Gods Son, the Lord, but what He says doesnt apply" its the exact same thing that the serpent did to eves mind.

God said one thing, he comes along and says the opposite. The whole Word of God comes down to the principle do what the word of God says to do, because you truly believe it. if we dont do it, we have deceived ourselves.


james 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

this is the most important principle that a believer can accept. its the diffence between truth and deception. and it was what adam did, he heard Gods true Word, but didnt do what God said, he did exactly what God said NOT to do. if He had simply " been a doer of the word" he would never have died.


"And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever"

what you are saying here is the reason adam was expelled from the right to eat and live forever. if God had allowed Him to continue on eating and living forever, then eternity would have looked like the world does with violence and wickedness around every corner, and would no longer be paradise but a terrible place. as i said earlier " why would God give eternal Life in His presence, to sinners who are prone to sin against one another? we caused the problem and God sent Our savior to heal what adam caused, our condition of mortality due to sin in us.


His word is absolutely the answer, and yes Jesus offers eternal Life again restoring the original image of God that adam lost for man. But at the same time, we have to hear and obey the word that leads us into all of this, simply because its what Jesus and the apostles taught plainly, a person who believes in Jesus will heed His word as the Word of God, because it is He says it constantly probably 15 times in the gospels " my words are not mine, they are the Fathers who sent me" " I have come to tell you the truth that i learned from God" the gospel is what Jesus preached as much as His death and resurrection. He says " all who came before me were thieves and robbers ( sinners) " as He is explaining how the sheep Hear his voice and follow.

Jesus is the Only way Home to Our true Life that is eternal. thats why the word of God is all about Jesus whether moses, the prophets, Jesus, the apostles. it all points to the 4 gospels. the basic fundamental for a christian who believes in Jesus, is to learn and apply His teachings because you believe all that is taught about Him and what He did for us, who He is How He loved us when we were lost

 

[resurrection33]

is that all there is to it? freedom from guilt over sin?

I don't think "guilt" really describes what Satan does to us. I think it goes way, way beyond that.

 

[followjesus]

I don't think "guilt" really describes what Satan does to us. I think it goes way, way beyond that.

indeed it does. lack of guilt comes from the result of what Jesus actually does for and means to believers

 

[seed_time_harvest]

"I can only give my opinion as to what posthuman said,and I think he was asking,why did the devil tempt them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first,Instead of the tree of life first ?

And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever"


Thats what im not understanding death only came because God said " if you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die" <<< everything is created and comes into existance, because God said it beforehand. He is the creator, when He speaks...what He says is true without fail. Adam was told plainly every tree you are free to eat, but not this one tree or you will die. satan cant possibly temot a person to do what God already Gave them the freedom and right to do.

Think of what happened after the transgression, first God curses the serpent, then eve, and then adam with death, immediately after this, God expels them from the garden, and makes it impossible to eat from the tree of life. thats why adam died, He was no longer able to eat the tree of life and live forever. He already beforehand was free to do so, death only came because of transgressing Gods word that has to be true, " if you eat this you will die" satan isnt looking to keep man alive forever, exactly the opposite His goal was to kill man.

the only possibility of that at this point in time, was to deceive them into doing what God sais would kill them. its the only reason satan tempted them at all.

can i ask why you think if he ate from the tree of life he could never transgress? realizing that people in hell after all is said and done will be alive forever, just in an eternity of torment rather than Gods New Heaven and earth. its like someone who says " I believe in Jesus" but then anything Jesus says " doesnt apply to them" belief has to be real or its disbelief. the truth is that the core of our belief, is where our actions come from they are tied to one another. Believing in Jesus comes to this point

Luke 6:46-49 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, AND DOETH THEM, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49But he that heareth, and DOETH NOT, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."

this is one example, but it is a consistant teaching of the gospel from Jesus to paul, to peter and the rest. eternal Life comes because we believe, and obedience is the fruit of real belief. who believes that Jesus is Lord and savior, yet disregards everything he taught? a fool does that. in essence they are saying "yes i believe Jesus is Gods Son, the Lord, but what He says doesnt apply" its the exact same thing that the serpent did to eves mind.

God said one thing, he comes along and says the opposite. The whole Word of God comes down to the principle do what the word of God says to do, because you truly believe it. if we dont do it, we have deceived ourselves.


james 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

this is the most important principle that a believer can accept. its the diffence between truth and deception. and it was what adam did, he heard Gods true Word, but didnt do what God said, he did exactly what God said NOT to do. if He had simply " been a doer of the word" he would never have died.


"And I was thinking that since GOD said he could freely eat of any tree In the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,then If adam had of eaten of the tree of life first,he would not have been disobedient and he would have lived forever"

what you are saying here is the reason adam was expelled from the right to eat and live forever. if God had allowed Him to continue on eating and living forever, then eternity would have looked like the world does with violence and wickedness around every corner, and would no longer be paradise but a terrible place. as i said earlier " why would God give eternal Life in His presence, to sinners who are prone to sin against one another? we caused the problem and God sent Our savior to heal what adam caused, our condition of mortality due to sin in us.


His word is absolutely the answer, and yes Jesus offers eternal Life again restoring the original image of God that adam lost for man. But at the same time, we have to hear and obey the word that leads us into all of this, simply because its what Jesus and the apostles taught plainly, a person who believes in Jesus will heed His word as the Word of God, because it is He says it constantly probably 15 times in the gospels " my words are not mine, they are the Fathers who sent me" " I have come to tell you the truth that i learned from God" the gospel is what Jesus preached as much as His death and resurrection. He says " all who came before me were thieves and robbers ( sinners) " as He is explaining how the sheep Hear his voice and follow.

Jesus is the Only way Home to Our true Life that is eternal. thats why the word of God is all about Jesus whether moses, the prophets, Jesus, the apostles. it all points to the 4 gospels. the basic fundamental for a christian who believes in Jesus, is to learn and apply His teachings because you believe all that is taught about Him and what He did for us, who He is How He loved us when we were lost

After reading what you said,You make an excellent point,I guess the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would have always been there just waiting for them If they had decided to be disobedient, IDK,the bible DOES say that the just shall live by faith.

All I can say Is that GOD Is sovereign and knew what man would do and made a way for man to make a choice either way and still be able to receive Eternal Life.
Thank you JESUS.