Why do humans need a SAVIOR?
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Because we are in this perishable world, how can we move to the eternal realm in peace ?.
Can we make our vehicle to bring us to there?.
Actually the fruits of the tree of knowledge about good and evil (fotkge) is the format of this perishable world, when Adam and Eve ate that fruit immediately they moved from eternal realm to perishable realm.
The fruit of the tree of life (fotl) is the way back from the perishable realm to the eternal realm , at the beginning before Adam and Eve fell , they were allowed to eat fotl , this fruit would not give any bad impact to them cause they were still in eternal realm , but after they they fell , if they ate fotl intentionally they surely move that time from perishable realm to the eternal realm in their previous condition (spiritually dead ) + their bodies also changed to the eternal bodies (live forever), in this state surely their destination was only to the lof = they tried to fulfill the torah laws = they worked on Sabbath day ( Sabbath day is the day of rest, every one who works on Sabbath day means try to reach his salvation by his own work, futile work cause perishable creature can do nothing that is worthy in the eyes of God (Isa64:6) ) , so this was the reason they were driven out from Eden.
John14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away
Spirit beings that belong to Him = born of God = the chosen = spirit which is sent from eternal realm to wander /sojourn to this perishable earth by God = who has spiritual ears = written in the book of life before the foundation of the world, surely need to be saved by Him = surely need divine power that can move them from perishable world to the eternal realm/heaven in peace - --> saved by His Grace only
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Means before Eden was, there were His people (spiritual beings) lived with Him in heaven ( included us ) then He planned gradually for sending one by one to sojourn to this perishable world that one day will be bestowed by His Grace only ,to be holy and without blame ( “in Him”means men surely need a savior ).
Can we make our vehicle to bring us to there?.
Actually the fruits of the tree of knowledge about good and evil (fotkge) is the format of this perishable world, when Adam and Eve ate that fruit immediately they moved from eternal realm to perishable realm.
The fruit of the tree of life (fotl) is the way back from the perishable realm to the eternal realm , at the beginning before Adam and Eve fell , they were allowed to eat fotl , this fruit would not give any bad impact to them cause they were still in eternal realm , but after they they fell , if they ate fotl intentionally they surely move that time from perishable realm to the eternal realm in their previous condition (spiritually dead ) + their bodies also changed to the eternal bodies (live forever), in this state surely their destination was only to the lof = they tried to fulfill the torah laws = they worked on Sabbath day ( Sabbath day is the day of rest, every one who works on Sabbath day means try to reach his salvation by his own work, futile work cause perishable creature can do nothing that is worthy in the eyes of God (Isa64:6) ) , so this was the reason they were driven out from Eden.
John14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away
Spirit beings that belong to Him = born of God = the chosen = spirit which is sent from eternal realm to wander /sojourn to this perishable earth by God = who has spiritual ears = written in the book of life before the foundation of the world, surely need to be saved by Him = surely need divine power that can move them from perishable world to the eternal realm/heaven in peace - --> saved by His Grace only
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Means before Eden was, there were His people (spiritual beings) lived with Him in heaven ( included us ) then He planned gradually for sending one by one to sojourn to this perishable world that one day will be bestowed by His Grace only ,to be holy and without blame ( “in Him”means men surely need a savior ).
the breath of life; = Adam spirit.
Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations
Means spiritual being named Jeremiah were with God already before He was physically born.
Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations
Means spiritual being named Jeremiah were with God already before He was physically born.
Yeah exactly God created Heaven and earth, created us from mud and then He breathed His spirit into us. its not that we were already living with Him in Heaven, We were created of the earth, Our spirit is a portion of Gods spirit from the start, satan then corrupted that and changed us to follow His will which Killed our spirit that Came from God breathing it into us. any Life comes from Gods spirit, its the source of Life itself. Man was made in Gods image because God breathed his spirit into mans body.
in a way weve always been with him because we are of His spirit. thats what Jesus came to redeem and replenish that spiritual image of God Holiness.
in a way weve always been with him because we are of His spirit. thats what Jesus came to redeem and replenish that spiritual image of God Holiness.
W
Adams nature never changed, he was capable of choosing to obey or disobey before the fall, and he was capable of obeying or disobeying after the fall,,,in gen 9-6, man is still said by God to be created in His image,,,sin is a choice not a genetic malady inherited from Adam... what mankind did inherit from Adam was the consequences of sin and its influence. (by one mans sin did death enter into the world)
We did not inherit our soul from Adam, but rather our flesh genetics came from Adam, Gen. 2-23 . Notwithstanding it is the soul that sinneth he shall die...Ezek.. 18................even children that die without sin still need a Saviour, simply to be raised from the dead in a new body..sinners need to be spiritually restored in the new birth, as well being restored in the resurrection..
We did not inherit our soul from Adam, but rather our flesh genetics came from Adam, Gen. 2-23 . Notwithstanding it is the soul that sinneth he shall die...Ezek.. 18................even children that die without sin still need a Saviour, simply to be raised from the dead in a new body..sinners need to be spiritually restored in the new birth, as well being restored in the resurrection..
Not at all willybob.
Adam was created in Gods image. there was choice sure He was free to choose any tree in the Garden But He had no reason to disobey God until the serpent offered the false doctrine " surely you will not die." when Eve who is one with adam Heard something contrary to What God had told them, she used her freedom to choose, to choose death for mankind. adam received Gods spirit, pure breathed into Him He never had a reason to disobey until they ate the fruit its at that point He changed. and evil became a part of His mind its " the Knowledge of Good and evil, rather than remaining in the holy image of God with the right to eat the tree of life, He chose to follow evil when it was offered.
He did this only because the serpent deceived Her mind. and instantly you can easily see the change, as soon as God comes near adam becomes afraid and hides from God, because He is aware of Good and evil and He knows what God had said " you will surely die" when you then look at cain who is adams first born, you cant honestly believe mankinds nature didnt change can you? or take a look at genesis chapter 6 " the thoughts and inclinations of mans heart was " Only evil continually" and the same man God calls very good at creation, God says " I am greived that i have made man on the earth it repenteth me that i have made them "
further if you cant see the change there in mans nature, ask yourself why we have to be reborn in the spirit at all? Jesus is re giving that original spirit of God, the same spirit God breathed into adam, and adam Killed by transgressing His creators word that says " if you do this you will surely die" Jesus is Giving Gods spirit again that should at least be something for you to consider. if mans nature didnt change when He consumned the knowledge of good and evil.....why didnt God just forgive Him rather than the whole process of redemption that the Bible explains? why have the big Show? why be born again? why do we need to be New creations? simply because we became sinners at Heart, as genesis 6 makes perfectly clear.
really its pretty plain.
"humans are born disobedient."
indeed we are "born" disobedient or if YOU prefer
...sinners in need of redemption. in need of a new birth in the spirit of God that brings the image of Jesus Christ to us inwardly through the Knowledge of Jesus Christ ( the Truth of Gods Word the true Image of God. We are born in the flesh with both good and evil inside of our nature, Jesus talks about the darkness in us and the different measures. were not all bad, were Just a double nature Now rather than Gods Nature were part obedient by nature, and part disobedient or " sinners" if we were pure evil wed be iredeemable, But God found enough in us that He Loves to send His Most precious Gift in order to redeem us from the death sentance that sin brings, by redeeming us from that sinful nature and giving us Hois nature through His spirit, through His word.we fell by satans word, and were redeemed by Jesus word.
The scriptures I picked above tell about His people ( included us as spiritual beings ) when this perishable world not yet created.
His plan about us was to be His corporeal creatures that can bring Glory to Him.
Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him
If God could reach His Goal , by simply created us altogether from; Adam, Eve, Abel,…., Noah,…., Abraham, Isaac , Jacob,….., us,…. Last name in the book of life, surely He created all of us together in Eden .
Cause the result will not match to His goal (can not bring glory to Him ), so He should create us through the perishable realm , by sending one by one through the women wombs to be born.
Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope
1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear
Heb11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth
The next questions; Why didn’t He take His faithful angels and equipped them with the eternal bodies and put them in the NHNE ( also a simpler manner ) ?, ---> the result also not match to His goal.
Now we can guess what’s for through the perishable world first ?.
For Growth cause there is no growth in the eternal realm ( every things are steady ), then Adam cs surely different with His angels ?, yes His faithful angels were full state (full of knowledge and full of abilities ) when they were created spiritually , but Adam cs were zero state (with no knowledge, with no ability ----> so in the first place they could not differ good and evil .
And when in the beginning God created only Adam and Eve in Eden, this evidence also gave confirmation about Rom8:20 above.
Along their wandering time/ sojourning ( His people ) they are purified in His purification process (salvation by His Grace only) parabled as 40 years in the dessert , the winner = the saved = understood , they shall bring glory to God His goal is achieved .
The loser will be punished together with the devils in the lof.
His plan about us was to be His corporeal creatures that can bring Glory to Him.
Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him
If God could reach His Goal , by simply created us altogether from; Adam, Eve, Abel,…., Noah,…., Abraham, Isaac , Jacob,….., us,…. Last name in the book of life, surely He created all of us together in Eden .
Cause the result will not match to His goal (can not bring glory to Him ), so He should create us through the perishable realm , by sending one by one through the women wombs to be born.
Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope
1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear
Heb11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth
The next questions; Why didn’t He take His faithful angels and equipped them with the eternal bodies and put them in the NHNE ( also a simpler manner ) ?, ---> the result also not match to His goal.
Now we can guess what’s for through the perishable world first ?.
For Growth cause there is no growth in the eternal realm ( every things are steady ), then Adam cs surely different with His angels ?, yes His faithful angels were full state (full of knowledge and full of abilities ) when they were created spiritually , but Adam cs were zero state (with no knowledge, with no ability ----> so in the first place they could not differ good and evil .
And when in the beginning God created only Adam and Eve in Eden, this evidence also gave confirmation about Rom8:20 above.
Along their wandering time/ sojourning ( His people ) they are purified in His purification process (salvation by His Grace only) parabled as 40 years in the dessert , the winner = the saved = understood , they shall bring glory to God His goal is achieved .
The loser will be punished together with the devils in the lof.
Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations
Means spiritual being named Jeremiah were with God already before He was physically born.
the scripture from Jeremiah doesnt say anything But God Knew Jeremiah before He was formed though. God Knows things that arent yet, He isnt Like us He doesnt have to wait and see what Happens were looking at it from Our perspective, and a fouled perspective at that because of Sin. God sees all at Once He saw and knew THE NEW hEAVEN AND EARTH that hasnt been yet created. you may be just beyond me , but im honestly not following you.
if you wanted a scripture to support mans existance beforethe creation, why didnt you Use what Jesus said to His disciples? "He says you were with me before the creation" even still at that, i see it as we came from Gods breath, and that is eternal, so in that way we were with Him prior, Like a child is with a father in his blood before conception. adam also was " born" of God, His Life came from within God God breathed what is in Himself the spirit that makes life
see if we Just stay within the realm of whats there, the simplicity of it, thats my own personal belief so hat ive said above i gain from this
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man OF THE dust of the ground, and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE ; and MAN BECAME a living soul."
To me its ultra plain we were with God always because we came out of Gods "Body" which is spirit, the breath of Life is spirit, But we as "mankind" didnt exist until God formed us from the dust, (which had just prior been watered= mud) and then we became a living soul when He breathed His life, into our body ( again us meaning mankind)
" God saw all that He had created ( including man) on the sixth day and it was all very good" so in a way i agree with you, because the living part of us was in God until He breathed it into us. When He told adam, " if you eat this particular fruit of duel Knowledge, you will surely die"
the thing is that the serpent knew that God had said that to adam, it was given to adam as a safeguard to keep Him safe, it wasnt a temptation until the serpent came along. the sepent took that warning to keep man alive, and He saw " all i need to do now is get them to eat the fruit and they will die" because satan Knows even more than many christians do, if God speaks it cannot fail to become reality.
So the subtlty of the serpent and the evil of His plan is to take that Good word to protect mans life, twist it in order to twist thier mind against Gods word, and omit part of it......in order to use the power of Gods word, to Kill His most Beloved Creation. at the Point when they eat and thier eyes are opened they are changed, you can plainly see it in thier nature in How they react when God comes to commune with them. its the beginning of mans fear of God, and hiding from God.
Im hinestly not able to follow what you are saying, im not arguing with you just dont grasp what you are saying. I believe man was created and came into His own existance on the sixth day of Creation after the heavens and earth as the word says, i believe we were with the Lord in Him always because Life itself comes from withing God and He created us and then breathed that into us and Gave us our life.
again maybe you are at a better level of understanding and im notthere yet. thank you either way for the discussion and may God bless and Keep you always !!
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations
Means spiritual being named Jeremiah were with God already before He was physically born.
the scripture from Jeremiah doesnt say anything But God Knew Jeremiah before He was formed though. God Knows things that arent yet, He isnt Like us He doesnt have to wait and see what Happens were looking at it from Our perspective, and a fouled perspective at that because of Sin. God sees all at Once He saw and knew THE NEW hEAVEN AND EARTH that hasnt been yet created. you may be just beyond me , but im honestly not following you.
if you wanted a scripture to support mans existance beforethe creation, why didnt you Use what Jesus said to His disciples? "He says you were with me before the creation" even still at that, i see it as we came from Gods breath, and that is eternal, so in that way we were with Him prior, Like a child is with a father in his blood before conception. adam also was " born" of God, His Life came from within God God breathed what is in Himself the spirit that makes life
see if we Just stay within the realm of whats there, the simplicity of it, thats my own personal belief so hat ive said above i gain from this
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man OF THE dust of the ground, and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE ; and MAN BECAME a living soul."
To me its ultra plain we were with God always because we came out of Gods "Body" which is spirit, the breath of Life is spirit, But we as "mankind" didnt exist until God formed us from the dust, (which had just prior been watered= mud) and then we became a living soul when He breathed His life, into our body ( again us meaning mankind)
" God saw all that He had created ( including man) on the sixth day and it was all very good" so in a way i agree with you, because the living part of us was in God until He breathed it into us. When He told adam, " if you eat this particular fruit of duel Knowledge, you will surely die"
the thing is that the serpent knew that God had said that to adam, it was given to adam as a safeguard to keep Him safe, it wasnt a temptation until the serpent came along. the sepent took that warning to keep man alive, and He saw " all i need to do now is get them to eat the fruit and they will die" because satan Knows even more than many christians do, if God speaks it cannot fail to become reality.
So the subtlty of the serpent and the evil of His plan is to take that Good word to protect mans life, twist it in order to twist thier mind against Gods word, and omit part of it......in order to use the power of Gods word, to Kill His most Beloved Creation. at the Point when they eat and thier eyes are opened they are changed, you can plainly see it in thier nature in How they react when God comes to commune with them. its the beginning of mans fear of God, and hiding from God.
Im hinestly not able to follow what you are saying, im not arguing with you just dont grasp what you are saying. I believe man was created and came into His own existance on the sixth day of Creation after the heavens and earth as the word says, i believe we were with the Lord in Him always because Life itself comes from withing God and He created us and then breathed that into us and Gave us our life.
again maybe you are at a better level of understanding and im notthere yet. thank you either way for the discussion and may God bless and Keep you always !!