Born again Christian

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ShelleBelle76

Guest
#61
That is Exactly correct.

Nobody can be born again in this life..illogical and unbliblical.
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

If I was born of the flesh when I came into this world as a baby, and then born of the water and spirit when I come to salvation, how is that not being born "again"? I'd be interested in hearing you explain this scripture.
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#62
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

If I was born of the flesh when I came into this world as a baby, and then born of the water and spirit when I come to salvation, how is that not being born "again"? I'd be interested in hearing you explain this scripture.
I have explained those verses in detail in this thread, usiing something many arnt used to here.. 'scriptures'.

You say 'born of flesh' when you come as a baby..(yes this is correct, flesh is flesh as scripture says)
then you say....
'then born of water and spirit when you come to salvation'.. (this is not refering to the life you're living now)

as it says in that passage.. flesh is flesh (born human with a MORTAL DYING body) and spirit is spirit (being made an IMMORTAL UNABLE TO DIE being)

So when you are born flesh as a baby, that is the first birth. the second birth (born again) happens after being judged worthy when a new undying body is given.

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

look at the verse for what it is saying..not what church slant puts on it incorrectly

except a man be born of (water (breaking of water is human birth)) ANNNNNNNDD (and meaning as well as) spirit (otherwords...you have to be born human (water) and again in (spirit) after judgement..
and one cannot enter the kingdom of god without being changed to immortality first.

the bible is full on about this..the whole gospel message is about it.. jesus preached not much else in his 40 days after resurrection but this salvational issue.

born first time is water, flesh is flesh..mortal ..dying.
born again is born in a spirit body(immortal) undying

to believe the false teaching that a human is born twice in the one lifetime is very dangerous and unbiblical. Even nicodemus asked how can a man be born twice in the one lifetime. and he wasnt a dummy. The answer of course was that one cannot be born twice in the one lifetime, as nicodemus suspected..but yet the way the term 'born again' was said..he thought he must have been hearing things.

Its not like nicodemus thought you could be born twice in the one lieftime. and he was correct of course you can't

the way to understand this is understanding what mortal and immortal mean.. and people do not relate this into this debate.. they for one usually don't understand what the words mean..

but a spirit life CANNOT die spirit means immortal.. anything spirit CANNOT die no matter what

a mortal body HAS TO DIE. it cannot live forever, its impossible thats the whole meaning of the word.

the passage says clearly.. FLESH IS FLESH, (not flesh is spirit) it is meaning.. a dying nature is a dying nature, it has to die
It says SPIRIT IS SPIRIT (not spirit is flesh), it is meaning that an undying immortal nature is an undying immortal nature, it CANNOT die.

so to say anyone in this lifetime being born flesh can in the same lifetime be born again in spirit, is to say they are changing from flesh (dying) to spirit (undying)..which of course would have to mean once a person claims they are born again, they are immortal from that point and cannot die..which of course is ridiculous because they indeed to die later.

the only way a person can be born again..is to make it to judgement, be judged worthy by christ, and be given a spirit(immortal) body to never be able to die ever again.

the verse is talking about future 'born again'.

the problem is people cannot graps the natures of immortality and mortality. yet they are so simple..
immortal cant die ever.. mortal does die.

you cant say someone is born again without saying they are now spirit/immortal/unable to die.. yet we know those who claim they are born again in this life do die. so it is clearly not meaning in this life..it is simply saying that if you believe the gospel in this life, that at judgement you will be given another life and be born again with a new undying body for the new kingdom..

which all fits with every other of the many passages talking about the kingdom and the natures of humans and spiritual beings. nothing contradicts..

yet if you try making flesh immortal before judgmeent there are many scriptures that contradict. and it also makes jesus not the judge..and those who claim being born again in this life..to be their own judge and consider themselves worthy before the judgement of christ.. therefore they have no need for christs judgement ..and make mockery of his death and ressurection by pretending to be a judgement unto themselves.

and this is exactly what was being pointed out to nicodemus..who was very learned, and no fool, he certainly wasn't asking the question about how can one come out the womb a second time, thinking for one minute they really could. as most people try and make out. that is just ridiculous.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#63
Hogwash. The second birth is a spiritual birth, which is of and by the Holy Spirit. John wrote that we are the children of God now, and that His seed abides in us. Your lies are an affront to the Spirit of truth.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#64
If you knew the truth, you would know that everyone who is born of and in the flesh, who have only the life of the flesh, are dead already, including you, since you do not believe in the birth of the Spirit in the believer by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the hour has already come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and that those who hear will live.
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#65
Hogwash. The second birth is a spiritual birth, which is of and by the Holy Spirit. John wrote that we are the children of God now, and that His seed abides in us. Your lies are an affront to the Spirit of truth.
Again your 'christianly' manner comes shining through.. what a light you shine.

I never said the second birth was anything but spiritual birth.. I have been saying the second birth is 100% spiritual all along..that shows you are just out for argument and playing the man not the ball as per your other posts. You seem to just be out to hunt down anyone who doesn't agree with your false beliefs.

You say we are the children of god.. WE? WE? are you another suggesting passages to certain people or groups 2000 years ago are always talking to you personally?

If WE are ALL gods children..then WE are ALL saved now..so why are WE here discussing anything..why arnt you down the pub getting sloshed, you don't have to worry about anything if WE are all gods children and that somehow means WE all make it to god.

Your basically suggesting that everyone is saved by saying WE are gods children

read john 9.31 and see that god people are his believers not non believers..so what you claim is 'we' I wouldn't suggest is gods people at all. Anyone who considers themselves a judge over jesus is not one of gods people at all. they have their saviour..(themselves obvously)..so no need of the saviour of jesus if your judging yourself 'saved' already before he says so.

so while your there saying hogwash and clearning up what you really want to say, you are again showing no scriptures..and just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing again. Ive said it form the start and my name says it out loud.. I do not take any notice of mans opinions yours or anyones.. and i go by GOSPEL ONLY.. you are going against the gospel..i take your attitude and belief system with the respect it deserves.
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#66
If you knew the truth, you would know that everyone who is born of and in the flesh, who have only the life of the flesh, are dead already, including you, since you do not believe in the birth of the Spirit in the believer by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the hour has already come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and that those who hear will live.
You in my belief have no understanding of the scriptures on this topic..and if you wish to know what it means by all means ask.. if you believe you have the truth on it..then be happy with that and let it be.

No point I continue with opinion chat..when others are prepared to discuss properly and with scripture..I'd rather not waste my time with the stubborn and rude and give it to the earnest and willing and open minded.

So unless you have any question..we have nothing else to discuss.believe what you like at your own risk..and I will believe what the scriptures say.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#67
Again your 'christianly' manner comes shining through.. what a light you shine.

I never said the second birth was anything but spiritual birth.. I have been saying the second birth is 100% spiritual all along..that shows you are just out for argument and playing the man not the ball as per your other posts. You seem to just be out to hunt down anyone who doesn't agree with your false beliefs.

You say we are the children of god.. WE? WE? are you another suggesting passages to certain people or groups 2000 years ago are always talking to you personally?

If WE are ALL gods children..then WE are ALL saved now..so why are WE here discussing anything..why arnt you down the pub getting sloshed, you don't have to worry about anything if WE are all gods children and that somehow means WE all make it to god.

Your basically suggesting that everyone is saved by saying WE are gods children

read john 9.31 and see that god people are his believers not non believers..so what you claim is 'we' I wouldn't suggest is gods people at all. Anyone who considers themselves a judge over jesus is not one of gods people at all. they have their saviour..(themselves obvously)..so no need of the saviour of jesus if your judging yourself 'saved' already before he says so.

so while your there saying hogwash and clearning up what you really want to say, you are again showing no scriptures..and just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing again. Ive said it form the start and my name says it out loud.. I do not take any notice of mans opinions yours or anyones.. and i go by GOSPEL ONLY.. you are going against the gospel..i take your attitude and belief system with the respect it deserves.
Now I will answer you with the words of Jesus.

I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I am the Father are one.

When I say we, I am talking of His sheep, of which I am one. I am one of His sheep not because I chose to be, but because He chose me. I was awoken one night in a vision to see Him and His life that He wants to give us now. If you do not have eternal life when the resurrection comes, then you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom is for the children of God, those who have been born of Him, in this life, in this world. For truly this life is not life but death, because of separation from God due to sin. But God, in His mercy, sent His Son into the world that those who believe in Him shall live, now. It does not as yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when we see Him, we will become like He is. This is not resurrection, this is Life.

Jesus said that He is the resurrection, and the life. These are two separate and completely different things. Life has nothing to do with the flesh. Resurrection has to do only with the flesh.

My love for you is tempered by your deception. What you are saying is against the gospel of Jesus, because you confuse life with resurrection. I am still praying for you, but in tongues, because I know not what to pray for you, only the Spirit.
 
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ShelleBelle76

Guest
#68
GospelOnly thank you for the explanation. Now I can disagree with your position with a clear concience. :)
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#69
Didnt Jesus say: Flesh and Blood can-not enter?????????

Hummmm

Ye must be Re-born!!

So why ya'll fighting the truth, "and can not see"

So I say again to those who claim they know!!

tell us what its like, tell us does God really look like Jesus????

I mean if you have entered the kingdom??? tell us about Gods temple his building??? 12,000.00 furlong's, 375 mile sqware,1,500 mile's 4-sides,3-gates on a side,I've read thier one soild pearl each,
to fit a side they have to a mile for each one, but those that have enter, please stop telling us we dont have it right!! and explain to us what it like,

Oh Oh Ok, I see you dont know for sure, Be-cause Jesus words are You have to be Reborn to enter the Kingdom, so dont go off on GospelOnly and tell him he caint see, When clearly he does,

Flesh and Blood can not inhert the Kingdom, didnt Jesus have to be Killed, to enter???? Hummmm

So why ya'll fighting the truth, "and can not see"

When one of our freinds are family dies, dont we say thier gone to heaven??
They died of thier Flesh Bodys, so what went to heaven???? thier Spirit Bodys, Hummmmm

To be absent of this Body "the Flesh body" is to be present with the Lord " The spirit body"

To be IN THIS FLESH BODY YOU CANOT SEE GOD HELLO

To be absent of this Body WE ARE RE-BORN to our spirit Bodys,,,, Hello

We become a Re-Born Christain,,,to be Absent of the Flesh Body
and then we can enter the Kingdom and not till then folks, So deal with it!!!!!

Born of water is of your Mothers water breaking and you being Born to the Flesh.
dieing of the flesh, puts you back in spirital bodys, and we go to our Father

if we go to our Father we will see him, Ye must be Re-born to see him.

so stop this and just tell us What does he look like.
Ya'll caint because we caint tell either!! Ye must be Re-Born

Hope this Helps
"In His Service"
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#70
Titus 3:5 He saved us (note the completed tense of "saved") not on the basis of deed which we have done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (literally to be born anew) and regeneration (to make new again) by the Holy Spirit (note the agency of this rebirth), whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I believe this makes clear that our spiritual rebirth is simultaneous with salvation.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#71
Jesus was, always is, and always will be in and of the kingdom of heaven. To say that He had to die to enter the kingdom is the height of fallacy. It shows a complete lack of understanding or knowledge of who Jesus was and is and will be. He said, "I and My Father are one." This statement made the Jews so mad at Him that they tried to stone Him, for more than this making Jesus to be equal with God, but because it also made Him to be in the kingdom of heaven already, and as such, a representative of heaven, a being not of this world, but rather the Son of God.

In Him we have this very same sonship.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#72
Titus 3:5 He saved us (note the completed tense of "saved") not on the basis of deed which we have done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration (literally to be born anew) and regeneration (to make new again) by the Holy Spirit (note the agency of this rebirth), whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I believe this makes clear that our spiritual rebirth is simultaneous with salvation.
This is the first that I have ever seen this doctrine. I find it to be very destructive to those who follow it. How can one walk in the Spirit if they do not believe that they are born of the Spirit? As long as I thought it was just one person believing this way, I was not willing to call it a doctrine, but now I see two, and have no choice. Truly, we are coming closer to the last days.

Thank you for your considered answer, as you always have answered.
In His love,
vic
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#73
Hogwash. The second birth is a spiritual birth, which is of and by the Holy Spirit. John wrote that we are the children of God now, and that His seed abides in us. Your lies are an affront to the Spirit of truth.
Beloved,
There is three earth ages, God says I knew you befor you was in your Mothers womb,when our Father new you was in the first earth age,thats when big Rex ran wild. Then " the first earth age" we was in a Sprit Bodys, But we made our Father mad and he wiped it all out.

Then our Father said will make Man in our image, "this is the sec earth age" give us free will,

the third earth age will be right here on earth, "Heaven" but if you are still alive, in this sec earth age when Jesus comes for you, twinkel, twinkel baby, in a blink, your flesh body will be gone bye bye. thats when you will enter my brother. Back in your spirital Body,

Jesus tells us, Ye Must be Re-Born , thats his words,

So who do you believe, What Jesus says?? are what you say???

Yes all souls belong to our Father, right now, he gives us free will to chose!!!!!

But my Brother Jesus says Flesh and Blood caint enter the Kingdom, so really what you say to Jesus!! he's a lie.. Jesus says Ye must be Re-Born, you say you are??? in a flesh body?? stop it, Ya'll think about what ya,ll are saying and be real and stop teaching folks a false doctrine, and repent.

When you become a Christain, you become a new creation," not reborn", you recieve the holy spirit.
Our Fathers power working in us, you know him, yes you have him, thats the one talking in your right ear,that reminds you not to do bad,the holy spirit, We have two bodys, a flesh body and a spirit body, when you dream a night you go into your spirit body,

thiers two spirits running around our souls, the Holy Spirit, and the Devil, the mark of the beast,
we are in a war right now, God gives us free will to chose,

do you know who we are fighting, thats the one in your left ear,saying go a head,surly you wont die!!

I say to you and all the rest Hog wash!!! wooohooo thats funny,lol

Hope this Helps
"In His Service"
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#74
Flesh and Blood can not enter, Ye must be Re-Born

"In His Service"
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#75
Beloved,
There is three earth ages, God says I knew you befor you was in your Mothers womb,when our Father new you was in the first earth age,thats when big Rex ran wild. Then " the first earth age" we was in a Sprit Bodys, But we made our Father mad and he wiped it all out.

Then our Father said will make Man in our image, "this is the sec earth age" give us free will,

the third earth age will be right here on earth, "Heaven" but if you are still alive, in this sec earth age when Jesus comes for you, twinkel, twinkel baby, in a blink, your flesh body will be gone bye bye. thats when you will enter my brother. Back in your spirital Body,

Jesus tells us, Ye Must be Re-Born , thats his words,

So who do you believe, What Jesus says?? are what you say???

Yes all souls belong to our Father, right now, he gives us free will to chose!!!!!

But my Brother Jesus says Flesh and Blood caint enter the Kingdom, so really what you say to Jesus!! he's a lie.. Jesus says Ye must be Re-Born, you say you are??? in a flesh body?? stop it, Ya'll think about what ya,ll are saying and be real and stop teaching folks a false doctrine, and repent.

When you become a Christain, you become a new creation," not reborn", you recieve the holy spirit.
Our Fathers power working in us, you know him, yes you have him, thats the one talking in your right ear,that reminds you not to do bad,the holy spirit, We have two bodys, a flesh body and a spirit body, when you dream a night you go into your spirit body,

thiers two spirits running around our souls, the Holy Spirit, and the Devil, the mark of the beast,
we are in a war right now, God gives us free will to chose,

do you know who we are fighting, thats the one in your left ear,saying go a head,surly you wont die!!

I say to you and all the rest Hog wash!!! wooohooo thats funny,lol

Hope this Helps
"In His Service"
If you are off by 5 degrees when setting a right angle for the corner of a building, it does not seem like much. But when the building is finished, every angle in the building will be off, there will be no square corners, and the building will not set squarely on it's foundation. This is what I see here.
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#76
Oh I see!!! Every thing in the shed but "this is what its like"???? There has been scriptures given to all in the matter, to all that can see, its clear with ever response!!!

Jesus words are clear, Ye must be Re-Born to enter the Kingdom

Our heavnly brother tells us in his words NO FLESH and Blood can Enter

So if ya'll want to blow smoke, and tell others that Jesus is out of square,

If you are allready reborn in the flesh "like so many think here in this form" Then when you die yall must be just dead, no re-nothin in ya'lls mined,

When we recieve the holy spirit, are we not in the Flesh??

But we still caint enter the kingdom folks,

Jesus words are clear, Ye must be Re-Born to enter the Kingdom

Our heavnly brother tells us in his words NO FLESH and Blood can Enter

I'm rebuken all out of square respones. Dont say to me Jesus is a liar
Ye must be Re-Born

"In His Service"
 
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Shwagga

Guest
#77
Oh I see!!! Every thing in the shed but "this is what its like"???? There has been scriptures given to all in the matter, to all that can see, its clear with ever response!!!

Jesus words are clear, Ye must be Re-Born to enter the Kingdom

Our heavnly brother tells us in his words NO FLESH and Blood can Enter

So if ya'll want to blow smoke, and tell others that Jesus is out of square,

If you are allready reborn in the flesh "like so many think here in this form" Then when you die yall must be just dead, no re-nothin in ya'lls mined,

When we recieve the holy spirit, are we not in the Flesh??

But we still caint enter the kingdom folks,

Jesus words are clear, Ye must be Re-Born to enter the Kingdom

Our heavnly brother tells us in his words NO FLESH and Blood can Enter

I'm rebuken all out of square respones. Dont say to me Jesus is a liar
Ye must be Re-Born

"In His Service"
John 5:24
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Once you believe you pass from death and judgment into life.

On a side note and off topic, why do you call Jesus your "heavenly brother" ? No big doctrinal issue, but I am just curious.

Blessings, peace and grace!
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#78
.

On a side note and off topic, why do you call Jesus your "heavenly brother" ? No big doctrinal issue, but I am just curious.

Blessings, peace and grace!
It may be a reference to

So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. He says.

I will declare your name to my brothers
In the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises. Heb2:12
 
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Shwagga

Guest
#79
Just curious his personal reasons, no real big deal. Thanks for your thoughts! Blessings!
 
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BestBeWishing

Guest
#80
To my Brothers and Sisters,

We must all remember that Satan uses Scripture, to confuse Christains.

Jesus words are no Flesh and Blood shall enter the Kingdom!!!

Ye must be Re-Born

So Beloved, if you can stab your-self and see Blood, I'd say your still in the Flesh,

So Beloved, Please dont say Jesus is a liar to me no more, lets learn from his words, and move on to other teachings from Jesus.

Scripture says all souls belong to our Father,,,,,,,,, he owns the Devil,Satan is a child of God, we are all Children of God!!!!

and we will all be Judged, Good are Bad!!! ever knee will see our Father, on that day,

Acept Jesus as your Lord and Savor, repent and when the books are open all the bad deeds that you've done is gone they will only be the Good deeds wrote in the Book, Our Father forgives, Thank him, and tell him you Love Him,

Our Father words are Clear,

The Apostle Petter stated: Let it be know to you all, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth Whom you Crucified,(whats this they KILLED him)
This was wrote in Scripture a thousand years befor the fact, Jesus came to die in the Flesh,


We are not to fear our first death, this is our flesh bodys going back to dust,

Repent in the name of Jesus, ask in prayer for understanding of his word, Ye will recieve the Holy Spirit

Yes that would be in the right ear, you,ll hear him,and know you have recieved.

That left ear is who we as Christains are fighting with, Turn and order him out "Satan" of you in the name of Jesus.

Hear Jesus say this: Flesh and Blood can not enter the Kningdom

Wink wink, so when you die my friends, Ye will enter

Be-cause : Ye must be Re-Born

"In His Service"
 
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