FOR THOSE WHO SAY THAT CHRIST IS NOT GOD.

[kaylagrl]

It wouldn't matter because you couldn't do it anyway.
It takes the Spirit of God.

​Why was Christ crucified?

 

[kaylagrl]

Thanks you for the rep SG

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thanks you for the rep SG

See, I'm not that bad, am I?

 

[jaybird88]

That's right jaybird, He did teach that but obviously you don't know why? So can you please tell me how you reconcile what Jesus said at John 4:23 to what the Apostle Thomas said at John 20:28 where he declared to Jesus Christ that He/Jesus was his "Lord and God?" Which btw is the highest form of worship for an orthodox Jew to say to a man only (like you and others believe) that Jesus Christ is his "Lord and God."

for me i would put my self in the culture of the days of Jesus and the 12 rather than todays culture. today every time we see elohim we assume its the Most High but its used quite often in the scriptures for others, even those sent from the Most High such as the angel that Jacob wrestled with.

So why would Thomas say that and moreover why does Jesus Christ not correct Thomas and tell him is wrong? I mean afterall did not Jesus Himself say at Luke 4:8, "It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only." How do you explain or reconcile all of this jaybird? I would really like to know?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

i would say Thomas is not wrong as Jesus came in the Name of the Father.

how do you reconcile that Jesus said the Most High is one?

 

[OneFaith]

Jesus is not God the Father, but He is GOD the Son. He is just as much Deity as the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Jesus said to the people, when you see me, you see the Father. I can do nothing on my own.

 

[Gabriel2020]

God ,the creator is the only one that could make his spoken word become flesh,as they are one in the same.. you have heard the expression that your word is your bond, well the only one that can bare witness to you is your word.

 

[trofimus]

@Trofimus - Jesus uses the sacred name of God, or YHVH, which is "I am." Except it is not "I am" in Greek, but "I, I am" “ἐγώ ἐιμί!"

John in his gospel refutes these early heretics,and the Jews, with his 7 “I am” statements!

“I am the bread of life” John 6:35
“I am the light of the world.” John 8:12
“I am the door” John 10:9
“I am the Good Shepherd” John 10:11
“I am the resurrection and the life.” John 11:25
“I am the way, the truth and the life” John 14:6
“I am the true vine, my Father is the vinedresser” John 15:1

Now, while these are all expressive and interesting word pictures, but how do they prove the deity of Christ?

For example, looking at the first one more closely. John 6:35, for example says "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς·" "I am the bread of life." But please notice, he does not say Eimi, which would be the normal way to say "I am" in the rest of the Bible. Jesus specifically uses the sacred name of God, to refer TO HIMSELF.

Unfortunately, the Greek wording does not come out in any English translation that I am aware of. But the Greek is very important. The way to say, “I am” in Greek is εἰμί or eimi. Indeed, in each of the 7 “I am” verses I listed just a minute ago, the word “I” or ἐγώ” or ego is also included. Thus, in all 7 of these “I am” statements, John actually says, “ἐγώ ἐιμί” οr “I, I am.” So again, that is “ἐγώ ἐιμί.” Or just think “I, I am!” But even that is not enough to explain why these statements, among others, made the Pharisees and the scribes so angry, that they tried to stone Jesus for making himself equal with God.

We have to look back to the Old Testament to find the full reason. In Exodus 3:14 Moses asks God whom he is to say sent him to Pharaoh. YHWH gives his sacred name.

“God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” Ex. 3:14.

In Hebrew, “I am” is the tetrgram YHWH, or as some transliterate into English, Yahweh. A few hundred years before the time of Christ, Alexander the Great, when he ruled the known world, started a rigorous program of Hellenization (or making everyone into Hellenes or Greeks,) The Jews started were losing their Hebrew. So in Egypt, an ambitious project to translate the OT into Greek was started, for the Hellenized Jews, and completed around 300 years before the time of Christ.

So how do you think this Old Testament, which was called the Septuagint or LXX (After the 70 or 72 translators who translated the Hebrew into Greek), which Jesus and the disciples also used, translated “YHWH or יְהֹוָה ? In Greek, Exodus 3:14 was ἐγω ἐιμί. Repeat that ἐγω ἐιμί! The sacred name of God was translated as “I am” in exactly the same way John wrote that Jesus called himself at least 7 times, in the above statements. The Jehovah's witnesses translate "ego eimi," into the word Jehovah! But the Jews, before Christ, they translated YHWH into Greek using the words ἐγώ ἐιμί. in Exodus 3:14. I think they knew what they were talking about, and certainly Jesus knew what he was talking about, when he called himself the same name as God! And that is why the Jews were so angry with him they tried to stone him. He was calling himself God. He said before Abraham was ἐγώ ἐιμί or "I, I am." And then in his teaching he repeated the fact in his parables and metaphors that he was God. Because he said "ἐγώ ἐιμί" or "I, I am" or YHWH!"

It doesn't get any clearer than that!

I know you have this opinion and some other people here too.

I just do not think so. In my native language we have the same situation like in Greek so I have a "feeling" on how to use it like Greeks did.

Egó - Já
eimi - jsem

Yes, you can use just "eimi" (jsem) without egó (já) mostly.

There are some situation, where it is proper or even needed to use it with egó (já).

It would be in the beginning of the sentence, in the stress of the person (me, not he...) etc. It is not any reference to OT "I am who I am" in such cases.

So when I arrive somewhere I can say in Czech "Jsem tady" (Am here).

When somebody asks "Who is in the school today?" I can respond "Já jsem teď ve škole" (I am in the school right now).

The same in Greek:

Κύριε, οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς (Matthew 8:8) - Lord, am not worthy (Pane, nejsem hoden)

vs

ἐγὼ ἄνθρωπός εἰμι ὑπὸ ἐξουσίαν (Matthew 8:9 - I am also under an authority (Já jsem také pod autoritou).

So even though the soldier used "ego eimi", he is not referencing to any deity about himself. It is just the natural way how to say it in Greek.


So in your examples "I am door, I am a good shepherd" etc the use of Ego eimi is very natural and nothing special. It would be probably possible (even in my language) to leave out "I", but it is more proper to add it.

 

[trofimus]

I obey no woman.

Even when she knows better than you?

 

[trofimus]

how do you reconcile that Jesus said the Most High is one?

Again and again and again.

God is one. No problem with that. He has 3 personalities.

 

[jaybird88]

Again and again and again.

God is one. No problem with that. He has 3 personalities.

Jesus is a personality?

 

[trofimus]

Jesus is a personality?

He is a person. One of three.

There are three persons in one God.

Its called Trinity.

 

[jaybird88]

He is a person. One of three.

that would be three and not one

There are three persons in one God.

Its called Trinity.

so what did it mean when Jesus said the Most High was one? strange it was such a big deal in the days of Jesus and the 12 to make this proclamation several times a day, and yet today, its all but absent from our faith. very strange.

 

[trofimus]

that would be three and not one



so what did it mean when Jesus said the Most High was one? strange it was such a big deal in the days of Jesus and the 12 to make this proclamation several times a day, and yet today, its all but absent from our faith. very strange.

He meant that the most High God is one.

Whats the problem?

 

[jaybird88]

He meant that the most High God is one.

Whats the problem?

how can three be one? it sounds like a contradiction. makes no sense to me.

 

[trofimus]

how can three be one? it sounds like a contradiction. makes no sense to me.

The same way as two can be one.

"I and the Father are one."
John 10:30

 

[graceNpeace]

how can three be one? it sounds like a contradiction. makes no sense to me.

It may not make sense to you but the Bible clearly teaches that God is one, YET, it also teaches, just as clearly, that the Godhead is three persons, the Father, the Son - Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[jaybird88]

The same way as two can be one.

"I and the Father are one."
John 10:30

i think i understand what you are saying. are you saying three persons and "they" are one?

 

[graceNpeace]

i think i understand what you are saying. are you saying three persons and "they" are one?

That is one way of looking at it.

 

[trofimus]

i think i understand what you are saying. are you saying three persons and "they" are one?

I am not sure if I understand your sentence.

There are three persons in one God.

It is the same "contradiction" as to say there are two persons in one God or 100 persons in one God.

If it is possible for two to be one, no problem with three.