FOR THOSE WHO SAY THAT CHRIST IS NOT GOD.

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J

jaybird88

Guest
#241
#241
graceNpeace said:
A single Scripture that encapsulates everything you want to know - no, there is not.
That is why I asked the question that I did in my last post.

The doctrine of the Trinity cannot be built from a single Scripture despite many Scriptures mentioning all three persons in the Godhead together.

So the question I asked before stands - I have no interest in covering a lot of Scripture proofs with someone who will not be persuaded no matter what the evidence.
So what is the answer to the question?
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so the roman councils had no problems spelling out the specifics but the 12 Apostles trained by the living Jesus couldnt?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#243
Aug 17, 2015
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#243
jaybird88 said:
so the roman councils had no problems spelling out the specifics but the 12 Apostles trained by the living Jesus couldnt?
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Councils only formulated what is tought in Scriptures.

You actually do not need to read any ancient councils to prove the Trinity. Scripture is enough.

But when many heresies and mistakes appeared and were attacking the church, the church formulated the creed so that it is clear what we believe.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#244
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#244
jaybird88 said:
i asked if there was a scripture that says these three beings/ persons/spirits are one? is there one?
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Hello Jaybird88,

I've always used the following in support of God existing as distinct persons:

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one"

"The LORD said to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;"

"Then God said, “Let us make man in ourimage, after our likeness.

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

"But about the Son (Jesus) he (the Father) says,“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Who can understand or explain the existence of God as multiple persons making up one God?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#247
#247
trofimus said:
Councils only formulated what is tought in Scriptures.

You actually do not need to read any ancient councils to prove the Trinity. Scripture is enough.

But when many heresies and mistakes appeared and were attacking the church, the church formulated the creed so that it is clear what we believe.
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ok so the councils had the sense to "formulate" what the Apostles could not?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#249
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#249
jaybird88 said:
ok so the councils had the sense to "formulate" what the Apostles could not?
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No, the councils formulated what was needed in specific time.

As the apostles had no need to formulate "calvinism vs arminianism" issue or "young earth vs old earth" etc, they had also no need to formulate Trinity.

Time is relevant.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#251
#251
trofimus said:
No, the councils formulated what was needed in specific time.

As the apostles had no need to formulate "calvinism vs arminianism" issue or "young earth vs old earth" etc, they had also no need to formulate Trinity.

Time is relevant.
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why was this formulation needed?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#253
#253
trofimus said:
Because of people like you :)
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i thought the scriptures say we are to test all things? is this an error when it comes to questioning a roman council? do roman councils have the same authority as the Most High? why did Jesus spend so much time teaching against the traditions of the pharisees but when roman councils do the exact same thing, its ok?
 
G

graceNpeace

Senior Member
#254
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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#254
jaybird88 said:
the point is Jesus is a better teacher than rome.
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I detect a problem here:
The Roman Catholic Church did not exist at the time the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.
I think you need to get better acquainted with church history.

It seems you may have been fed a line that goes like this:
RCC is evil, RCC formulated the doctrine of the Trinity, therefore doctrine of the Trinity is evil.

I repeat that the RCC that you know did not exist at the time.
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#255
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#255
jaybird88 said:
i asked if there was a scripture that says these three beings/ persons/spirits are one? is there one?
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A proton and his electron shall be one flesh, Atom. :confused: Nah that wasn't it.

Let me call upon the Holy Ghost and I will get back with you on that question.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#256
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#256
jaybird88 said:
i thought the scriptures say we are to test all things? is this an error when it comes to questioning a roman council? do roman councils have the same authority as the Most High? why did Jesus spend so much time teaching against the traditions of the pharisees but when roman councils do the exact same thing, its ok?
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It is an error when you are questioning many Bible verses.

Council or not, this is a purely biblical issue.

---

Are Jesus and Father one or not?

If they are (as the Bible says), just add also the Holy Spirit who came later.

And thats all.
 
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J

jaybird88

Guest
#257
#257
graceNpeace said:
I detect a problem here:
The Roman Catholic Church did not exist at the time the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.
I think you need to get better acquainted with church history.

It seems you may have been fed a line that goes like this:
RCC is evil, RCC formulated the doctrine of the Trinity, therefore doctrine of the Trinity is evil.

I repeat that the RCC that you know did not exist at the time.
Click to expand...
rome as in the roman empire. Catholic was never part of the equation.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#259
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#259
jaybird88 said:
rome as in the roman empire. Catholic was never part of the equation.
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Rome was the center of the developed world.

It is not surprising that creeds and councils were held there like it is not surprising that reformed councils were held in Germany or Holland.

It is not needed to come from some poor and unimportant country for a doctrine to be true.

So if Rome or not is not relevant. What is relevant is - do you accept the Bible verses proving the result of the council?
 
G

graceNpeace

Senior Member
#260
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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#260
trofimus said:
Rome was the center of the developed world.

It is not surprising that creeds and councils were held there like it is not surprising that reformed councils were held in Germany or Holland.

It is not needed to come from some poor and unimportant country for a doctrine to be true.

So if Rome or not is not relevant. What is relevant is - do you accept the Bible verses proving the result of the council?
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Trofimus, you also need to brush up on your church history...
 
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