The Temple Of God

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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#1
This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

I have always seen it is a physical temple.

2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

God in some way is involved in the deception

11 [FONT=&quot]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

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[FONT=&quot]Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.



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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#2
Furthermore, I believe Jesus actually stated that he would rebuild the Temple within three days.

Three days is prophetically three thousand years.

So Jesus actually takes credit for the coming rebuild.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#3
John 2: 18-22, "The Jews then said to Him, 'What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?' Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken."
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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#4
John 2: 18-22, "The Jews then said to Him, 'What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?' Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken."
This is completely correct!
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#5
Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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#6
Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.
I am sorry - you have been the given the text that refutes your position.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
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Alabama
#7
Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning. (i.e. that was what the this pointed to).

The Greek word 'de', translated as 'But', also has the meaning 'Moreover', denoting dual meaning, and so should be the correct translation.

e.g. Moreover/Furthermore he spake of the temple of his body.
Jesus did not make statements without meaning. Everything he said was truth. This leads me to wonder if you understand just who Jesus is.
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
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#8
This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

I have always seen it is a physical temple.

2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

God in some way is involved in the deception

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.
I don't quite follow you, but what came to mind while I was reading 2 Thessalonians 2, I thought that verse 4, that mentions "he (Satan) as God sitteth in the temple of God," would relate to the following verse in Revelation.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. (Revelation 2:13)

2 Thessalonians 2:11 could be compared with Romans 1:28, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

In other words, under the New Covenant, sincere true believers are the temple of God. As for those who claim to be His, yet are inwardly turning their backs on God, He sends judgements of rejection back to them, just like the sun worshippers in Ezekiel 8:16.

"And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east."

God says, 'If you slap me in the face by rejecting me in the place where I dwell, this is how I will react in your face.' That's my take.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#9
I am sorry - you have been the given the text that refutes your position.
No, I gave you the text that refutes your position. :)

Of which I am not at all sorry....
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#10
Jesus did not make statements without meaning. Everything he said was truth. This leads me to wonder if you understand just who Jesus is.
Confused...don't know what you are trying to say.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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#11
No, I gave you the text that refutes your position. :)

Of which I am not at all sorry....
You are overcooking the meaning of one word that does not fit the context.
You are debating someone who does know his Koine.
However it is NOT necessary to specifically know the Koine in this instance - the context makes it unambiguously clear that the statement about raising the temple in three days is referring to the resurrection of Jesus - period.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#13
Yes, it appears that way, but actually Jesus made a statement with two meanings.
That is why the Pharisees understood him to mean the temple, because that was the primary meaning.
Incorrect.

The Pharisees misunderstood Him. You also are misunderstanding the text and are forcing a rendering upon it which isn't there. This is your eisegetical fallacy bro. Why not just accept this mistake instead of trying to force something that is not there on the text?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#14
Confused...don't know what you are trying to say.
HIS words are SPIRIT and TRUTH
And those to whom the secrets of THE KINGDOM have been given...HE speaks plainly and clearly
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#15
You are overcooking the meaning of one word that does not fit the context.
You are debating someone who does know his Koine.
However it is NOT necessary to specifically know the Koine in this instance - the context makes it unambiguously clear that the statement about raising the temple in three days is referring to the resurrection of Jesus - period.
How many meanings do you see in the passage?

I see two clear meanings, because the Pharisees clearly understood Jesus to be speaking about the physical temple, whilst the disciples understood Jesus to be speaking about his body.

So, we have two distinct meanings at play.

Now John introduces the word 'de', which has a range of meanings, including: on the other hand, moreover, furthermore, on top of this.

So 'de' and 'but' are clearly not words that transliterate perfectly, far from it, 'de' has a whole range of meanings not covered by the English 'but'.

Now, Koine is a context driven language, so given that John has presented two competing meanings, a literal and a metaphorical one, it stands to reason that 'on top of this' would be the correct translation of 'de' here, to show the metaphorical meaning being added to the literal.

You can argue all you want, but you won't be right. Why not pray first, and then engage?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,760
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#16
Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.
It would seem from your two posts that you have confused all the temples mentioned in the NT. But the context determines the meaning in each case.

1. The individual believer is called "the temple of God"

2. By extension the Church is called the temple of God (actually building)

3. Christ metaphorically called His body "this temple" in connection with His resurrection within 3 days (not 3,000 years)

4. There will be a literal temple of "bricks and mortar" called "the temple of God" standing in Jerusalem which will be occupied and desecrated by the Antichrist in the future. So in reality it will become "the temple of Satan".

Getting back to 2 Thess 2, Paul is speaking about the great delusion which will come upon the unbelieving and the ungodly because they "loved not the truth". In other words the people who hated the Gospel and rejected the true Christ will be deceived into believing that when the Antichrist proclaims from the temple of God that he is Christ and God, they will actually believe him because of the miracles that he will perform (along with the False Prophet's miracles). These are the "signs and lying wonders" of Satan. He connects this with the Day of the LORD, which will follow immediately, and be the time of severe judgments resulting from the great blasphemies of the Antichrist (including the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation within that temple).
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
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#17
How many meanings do you see in the passage?

I see two clear meanings, because the Pharisees clearly understood Jesus to be speaking about the physical temple, whilst the disciples understood Jesus to be speaking about his body.

So, we have two distinct meanings at play.

Now John introduces the word 'de', which has a range of meanings, including: on the other hand, moreover, furthermore, on top of this.

So 'de' and 'but' are clearly not words that transliterate perfectly, far from it, 'de' has a whole range of meanings not covered by the English 'but'.

Now, Koine is a context driven language, so given that John has presented two competing meanings, a literal and a metaphorical one, it stands to reason that 'on top of this' would be the correct translation of 'de' here, to show the metaphorical meaning being added to the literal.

You can argue all you want, but you won't be right. Why not pray first, and then engage?
The Pharisees did but believe..
The SPIRITUAL TRUTH of HIS words were kept from them
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#18

Acts 7

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.


This came to mind.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#19
A group of believers who worship GOD in spirit and Truth through Faith in His Son is a church.

It could be a tent in the wilderness or a building in the town.. The Holy Spirit gathered together by our temples being in the tent, building or where ever else we abide.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#20
This causes a lot of debate. A physical building, or the human body?

I have always seen it is a physical temple.

2 Thessalonians 2 needs very careful reading.

God in some way is involved in the deception

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now this is quite heavy stuff if you think about. Paul starts off by telling the Church not to let any man deceive us, but then tells us that God is involved in the deception!

The deception then that God sends is not a human being, as Paul has said not to let a human being deceive you.

Personally I believe that the deception God sends is the very temple itself, which is why Paul calls it the 'Temple of God', when of course it is no such thing, it is the temple of Satan.





That is the cause you highlight in red "and for this cause@

snd you leave it out

but the cause is that those who heard the truth and did not believe it, are thosevti whom a strong delusion will come that they will not have a chance to believe the TRITH but will believe the lie


therefore when the temple is rebuilt, they will see NOTHING wrong with it being built


snd that sir is a physical earthly structural temple