True Baptism

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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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It's not worded that way, but if you're not born again of the Holy Spirit, you are not saved.


See Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13-14


Speaking in tongues is one evidence, yes.

And PLEASE do not automatically assume that I am saying that if you don't speak in tongues you aren't saved. I am NOT saying that, OK?
I read both your verses, neither one even mentioned baptism. Do you have any verses that prove your point about baptism or even mention baptism?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Matt 3:14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”

Matt 3:15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.

I think this is a good example to follow - "fulfill all righteousness" in a sense.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Whatever is or is not mandatory.

When I was born, I was born into a Lutheran family so obviously I got baptized then too.
However I did not truly get saved until much later in life, and that is when I picked up my Bible, I started reading from matthew to revelation. The New Testament. I then ran into:

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

After that I got in contact with a baptist church to get baptized asap and two weeks later I was.

The moral of the story is: Get baptized, it does not hurt you. I have recently read an interesting article about this subject sent by a brother on this forum.
Getting baptized because it won't "hurt you"? I do not think that was God's reason for baptism. John's baptism and Jesus's baptism were for remission of sins.
 
May 11, 2014
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Getting baptized because it won't "hurt you"? I do not think that was God's reason for baptism. John's baptism and Jesus's baptism were for remission of sins.
You did not even read my post, I did not get baptized because it "wont hurt me" but because I read Mark 16:16 after I got saved by the grace of God.

You play the same game in every thread you participate in, in the "how can you know you are saved" thread you had people checking your profile to see if you even identify as a christian. I will not fall for this again.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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A True Baptism® gives you whiter teeth..


 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Who here mentioned baptising unbelievers? Why would you want to? Why would a unbeliever want to?
What would be the purpose of dunking a person who does not believe into a pool of water?
HaHa! So that the implication is that no one is saved because of waters of baptism, and only those that believed (saved) are to obey it! But we have to remember, obedience is not the means but the cause why water baptized.

God bless
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
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Getting baptized because it won't "hurt you"? I do not think that was God's reason for baptism. John's baptism and Jesus's baptism were for remission of sins.

Simply I disagree with this notion, it wasn't the 'John's baptism for the remission of sins' but repentance for the remission of sins.

God bless
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Getting baptized because it won't "hurt you"? I do not think that was God's reason for baptism. John's baptism and Jesus's baptism were for remission of sins.
Water baptism is used in ceremonial laws used to introduce a new Priest into the ministry. John a Levi was appropriated to baptize a kingdom of priests (all believers ) a shadow of the heavenly.

The Son of man Jesus from the tribe of Judah was under the authority of a desire when a new priest entered the ministry to perform that ceremonial law. . When the Son of man was baptized he by faith ceremonially entered it and then typified as a Levite , he could officiate the cerimoinal work before others started their ministry as a kingdom of Priest.

It was the old testament ceremonial law as a shadow that promoted the discussion found in John 3 .Jesus could not become a officiator unless someone who was official performed the ceremonial purifying.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.Joh 3:25
.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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You did not even read my post, I did not get baptized because it "wont hurt me" but because I read Mark 16:16 after I got saved by the grace of God.

You play the same game in every thread you participate in, in the "how can you know you are saved" thread you had people checking your profile to see if you even identify as a christian. I will not fall for this again.
I certainly did read your post. Your words, "The moral of the story is: Get baptized, it does not hurt you." reveals a rather flippant attitude toward this important command of God. What kind of advice is, "just do it and get it over with". Then you hint at me not being a Christian. My question to you, are you even reading your own post.

Was Jesus baptized because it wouldn't hurt? No but to fulfill all righteous. (Matthew 3:15)
Was Paul baptized because it wouldn't hurt? No but to wash away his sins. (Acts 22:16)
Was John the Baptist baptizing because it wouldn't hurt? No but unto repentance and the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4)
Was Peter baptizing because it wouldn't hurt? No but to receive the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Mark 16:16 is written in the future tense (will be) saved not (are) saved. You are not saved before baptism, you may not be saved now.

I am playing no games. It is you who seems to not take this thread seriously. I could never ever imagine the apostles saying such a thing as "Get baptized it won't hurt you". Christians have and do today suffer for their act of baptism. Do not belittle it.

It is not an option under any circumstance.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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48
HaHa! So that the implication is that no one is saved because of waters of baptism, and only those that believed (saved) are to obey it! But we have to remember, obedience is not the means but the cause why water baptized.

God bless
The "implication" is that baptizing a unbeliever is absurd. Don't you agree?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
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Whatever is or is not mandatory.

When I was born, I was born into a Lutheran family so obviously I got baptized then too.
However I did not truly get saved until much later in life, and that is when I picked up my Bible, I started reading from matthew to revelation. The New Testament. I then ran into:

Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

After that I got in contact with a baptist church to get baptized asap and two weeks later I was.

The moral of the story is: Get baptized, it does not hurt you. I have recently read an interesting article about this subject sent by a brother on this forum.
Yea, I'll take this positively, since many converts fail to obey Christ command. it is interesting that getting wet does not hurt you. Taking a plunge is just a symbolic way to proclaim one's walk in the newness of life. Really, those who love the Lord will obey his words.

God bless
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
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Simply I disagree with this notion, it wasn't the 'John's baptism for the remission of sins' but repentance for the remission of sins.

God bless
My bible states, "And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

What kind of baptism was it? One of repentance.
What was it for? The remission of sins.

What part do you disagree with?

They did not get baptized to get repentance, they got baptized to get remission of sins.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The "implication" is that baptizing a unbeliever is absurd. Don't you agree?
Yet many unbelievers in various false religions and cults still end up gettting water baptized because they trust in water baptism (along with other works to save them). Such people may even believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ (just as the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" - James 2:19), yet they don't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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God bless you, too. Thanks for the warm welcome.

I'm not calling Jesus a liar, nor am I an anti-christ.
First of all... I didn't realize you required a "welcome" in the middle of a discussion.. so, welcome to CC, brother!

and, by definition, if you are teaching something opposite to what Jesus taught, you are an anti-Christ. Hence my comment.
If you would like to clarify your teaching, versus what Jesus so clearly stated, I would welcome it..
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I've yet to see you demonstrate this. Seems you're more into being snide and snarky. ;)
This is what usually happens when a person has no legitimate rebuttal of a statement.... they turn it into an accusation of all kinds of imagined "slights" against themselves.

I was neither snide, nor snarky. At the very worst, I was a tad sarcastic in my response to you. If sarcasm offends you, well... I don't know what to tell you.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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My bible states, "And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

What kind of baptism was it? One of repentance.
What was it for? The remission of sins.

What part do you disagree with?

They did not get baptized to get repentance, they got baptized to get remission of sins.
In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for repentance.. (NASB) Was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? (which makes no sense at all) or was this baptism for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? So water baptism does not obtain repentance or the remission of sins, but is done "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. ​*What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." *This was prior to receiving water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I believe that in many cases you confuse water baptism with the true baptism, which is baptism in the Holy Spirit.
So, to be clear, just how many baptisms ARE there?

And, where are scriptural references on HOW to accomplish each of them?
How do you become "baptized in the Holy Spirit" ? Is there a process spelled out somewhere? Or is it something that happens when you accept Jesus, and are immersed, as commanded?

Otherwise, how do you reconcile all of them with the scripture of "one Lord, one faith, one baptism", when there are so many scriptures, and historical evidences that show us that Jesus, the apostles, and all followers of Jesus believed in the necessity of being immersed, in water?
 
Apr 15, 2017
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My bible states, "And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

What kind of baptism was it? One of repentance.
What was it for? The remission of sins.

What part do you disagree with?

They did not get baptized to get repentance, they got baptized to get remission of sins.
Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins,so John's baptism cannot mean remission of sins in the same way,as at that point,for Christ's blood is for the remission of sins.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

John baptized with the baptism of repentance,but the remission of sins would not go in to effect until they believed on Jesus,and His blood washed away their sins.

Those that were baptized unto John's baptism,had to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus,for remission of sins to actually take place.

John's baptism alone cannot be for remission of sins,for Christ's blood is for the remission of sins.

John preached repentance,unto remission of sins,but then said,believe on Him that would come after him,for the remission of sins to actually take place,when they believed on Christ,and He shed His blood.

John prepared the way for Jesus,and that first step is the repenting of sins,but John's baptism did not have any effect for remission of sins,but only got the people's hearts in the right condition by their repenting of their sins,and John pointed to Jesus,who would shed His blood,and then they would have remission of sins.

John prepared their hearts to be in the right condition to receive Christ,for that first step is repenting of sins.