KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

[trofimus]

No I read it as the Son radiates the Fathers glory.

Ah... but the verse does not say "Son radiates", but "Son is radience".

 

[KJV1611]

יְלִדְְתִּֽךָ is the qal perfect of יָלַד; which means to bear children or to cause a woman to conceive. In appropriate context it can mean to midwife or assist in delivery. the nouns yeled boy and yaldah girl are derived from it. Literally Thou art my son the day I have caused you to be conceived.

Can you see why I say the KJV brings more clarity than the originals. Monogenes really does reflect the concept if the original Hebrew word. Or perhaps it did back in its day but that meaning has been lost over the last 2000 years

 

[MarcR]

Can you see why I say the KJV brings more clarity than the originals. Monogenes really does reflect the concept if the original Hebrew word. Or perhaps it did back in its day but that meaning has been lost over the last 2000 years

Monogenes is a word with a broad spectrum of meaning of which begotten is one of the principle meanings. When words have multiple meanings it behooves a translator to see how the word is used in context with the situation of its present use.
The KJV translators did that here but neglected to do that in Luk 1:1-3, and elsewhere..

 

[MarcR]

Can you see why I say the KJV brings more clarity than the originals. Monogenes really does reflect the concept if the original Hebrew word. Or perhaps it did back in its day but that meaning has been lost over the last 2000 years

Of all the other major translations only the YLT the Darby, the Amplified, and the NKJV got it right.

 

[KJV1611]

Ah... but the verse does not say "Son radiates", but "Son is radience".

They both mean the same.

 

[KJV1611]

Monogenes is a word with a broad spectrum of meaning of which begotten is one of the principle meanings. When words have multiple meanings it behooves a translator to see how the word is used in context with the situation of its present use.
The KJV translators did that here but neglected to do that in Luk 1:1-3, and elsewhere..

I meant to say monogenes does not reflect the meaning of the Hebrew word.

Honestly you're right, the translators have to do a ton of context interpretation to translate. Are there any secular sourced definitions of monogenes?

 

[trofimus]

They both mean the same.

No.... that you breathe or that you are a breath of somebody else is a huge difference.

 

[Deade]

Ah... but the verse does not say "Son radiates", but "Son is radience".

They both mean the same.

Radiates/is radiance - What we are really talking about is glory, is it not?

John 17:5: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

 

[MarcR]

I meant to say monogenes does not reflect the meaning of the Hebrew word.

Honestly you're right, the translators have to do a ton of context interpretation to translate. Are there any secular sourced definitions of monogenes?

monogenes has at least 9 legitimate meanings. Unique or only is in fact the most prevalent. begotten is one of the legitimate meanings; and it does in fact fit here; but it ignores what we learn about Jesus elsewhere.

 

[KJV1611]

monogenes has at least 9 legitimate meanings. Unique or only is in fact the most prevalent. begotten is one of the legitimate meanings; and it does in fact fit here; but it ignores what we learn about Jesus elsewhere.

The new testament is directly quoting the Psalms, I would think the word meanings should match exactly.

Do you know where we get the definition of monogenes? Also do you know of any secular writings that used the word?

 

[KJV1611]

monogenes has at least 9 legitimate meanings. Unique or only is in fact the most prevalent. begotten is one of the legitimate meanings; and it does in fact fit here; but it ignores what we learn about Jesus elsewhere.

"Ignores what we learn about Jesus elsewhere" what do you mean by this?

 

[MarcR]

The new testament is directly quoting the Psalms, I would think the word meanings should match exactly.

Do you know where we get the definition of monogenes? Also do you know of any secular writings that used the word?

Monos = single, sole or only. ginomai = to cause to exist hence only begotten is the most literal meaning; but unique is the most frequent meaning.

 

[preston39]

Cannot agree with this...
Check out John chapter 1 for verification.
John chapter 1 explicitly contradicts this...

g...,

Please show conflict with words in John 1...?

 

[KJV1611]

Monos = single, sole or only. ginomai = to cause to exist hence only begotten is the most literal meaning; but unique is the most frequent meaning.

Where does unique come from as it's not in the etymological definition? And this is what I'm trying to get at, where does "unique" come from, I just don't see it... it's almost seems as thouth it's just thrown in there lol.

 

[MarcR]

Where does unique come from as it's not in the etymological definition? And this is what I'm trying to get at, where does "unique" come from, I just don't see it... it's almost seems as thouth it's just thrown in there lol.

common usage over time. It comes from monos and ginomai

caused to be only ore caused to be singular. the meanings have been transposed.

 

[KJV1611]

common usage over time. It comes from monos and ginomai

caused to be only ore caused to be singular. the meanings have been transposed.

I believe you are saying that the meaning of the word has morphed over time from only begotten to unique. Is this true?

 

[MarcR]

I believe you are saying that the meaning of the word has morphed over time from only begotten to unique. Is this true?

yes indeed!

 

[MarcR]

I believe you are saying that the meaning of the word has morphed over time from only begotten to unique. Is this true?

Ben Johnson, a famous drama critic contemporary with William Shakespeare described Shakespeare's work as awful and artificial. At the time the words meant awesome and well crafted. In fact we still use artifice to mean craftsmanship.

 

[KJV1611]

Ben Johnson, a famous drama critic contemporary with William Shakespeare described Shakespeare's work as awful and artificial. At the time the words meant awesome and well crafted. In fact we still use artifice to mean craftsmanship.

I agree language changes over time, but when we are analyzing original writings, we have to use the definitions AT THE TIME of the orginal writings. I suspect the original meaning was "only begotten" based on the etymology.

 

[KJV1611]

yes indeed!

If this is the case then I would suspect that most if not all words have gone the same way. If this is the case, do we really know what any of the Greek words truly meant at the time of their writings?