How To Be Un-Saved

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Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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well yash

if you dont believe works go together with faith for salvation

that is good

:)

it is by grace through faith we are saved

praise God


but do you believe an adopted son or daughter of God can lose his salvation based on his or her works?

(in which case... works would still be the basis for your salvation)


i ask this because it seems like you are saying the works of man keep him saved to me
I Don't know if you've ever driven a manual transmission but imagine "salvation" is 1st gear. Can't get the car moving without it being in first gear...

So you have it in first gear and you get going. Then you put it into second gear "works", but as soon as you do you're immediately throws back into first. That's what it feels like right now on this thread.

Hebrews 6:1
1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God,

---

To answer your question, we look forward to our adoption waiting for it to happen... It hasn't happened yet.

Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

The new body is the adoption. No one here has the new body yet. Until then we have the firstfruits of the Spirit. Now this is what scripture says. So do I believe an adopted (i.e. glorified bodied) son or daughter can lose salvation? No.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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So do I believe an adopted (i.e. glorified bodied) son or daughter can lose salvation? No.
Neither can those who are awaiting lose salvation. The golden chain of redemption is completed and unbreakable from foreknowledge to glorification, the language of the text proves this, it shows God has already caused it all to happen though not all have experienced each phase; Roman 8:29ff.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I Don't know if you've ever driven a manual transmission but imagine "salvation" is 1st gear. Can't get the car moving without it being in first gear...

So you have it in first gear and you get going. Then you put it into second gear "works", but as soon as you do you're immediately throws back into first. That's what it feels like right now on this thread.

Hebrews 6:1
1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God,

---

To answer your question, we look forward to our adoption waiting for it to happen... It hasn't happened yet.

Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

The new body is the adoption. No one here has the new body yet. Until then we have the firstfruits of the Spirit. Now this is what scripture says. So do I believe an adopted (i.e. glorified bodied) son or daughter can lose salvation? No.
no....

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

predestinated


by?

Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

the spirit of adoption....

this happens when we are born again


and we NOW KNOW

romans 8
29
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



youre in serious need of Gods instruction yash

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is



you can KNOW you are saved NOW and His child

and your assurance if it comes from Him and His promises is full

not weak and based on works (which cannot save or keep anyone saved)

only His power can do that
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
no....

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

predestinated


by?

Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

the spirit of adoption....

this happens when we are born again


and we NOW KNOW

romans 8
29
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



youre in serious need of Gods instruction yash

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is



you can KNOW you are saved NOW and His child

and your assurance if it comes from Him and His promises is full

not weak and based on works (which cannot save or keep anyone saved)

only His power can do that
john 1


12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
701
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All markup of your quote in Turquoise is mine NoNameMcgee (just to save on time)...

no....

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

predestinated (Greek) - proorizó; "marked out beforehand; foreordained; planned."


by?

Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

the spirit of adoption.... Not the actual adoption but the Spirit of Adoption (i.e. the Holy Spirit)

this happens when we are born again True


and we NOW KNOW

romans 8
29
Moreover whom he did [marked out beforehand; foreordained], them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Matthew 22:14 -
For many are called, but few are chosen.


youre in serious need of Gods instruction yash

I follow his instruction every day in obedience. That's exactly the work I'm ordained to do.

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

Amen

you can KNOW you are saved NOW and His child

I know I'm saved now. Everyone who confesses Christ are saved the moment they do.

and your assurance if it comes from Him and His promises is full

Agreed

not weak and based on works (which cannot save or keep anyone saved)

(responding to the "keep" part) Tell that to Christ's Church in Sardis

only His power can do that

Divine Power we must use or we lose.

Titus 2:11-12

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age"


Grace doesn't do the work for us but instructs us in the work to be done.
Like I said. It's like putting the car into first gear ("salvation through faith"), getting the car moving, and as soon as we try to change the gear to second ("good works") *BOOM* the engine throws the car back into first as we struggle to get moving.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Let's stick with Scripture. :D

It's like putting the car into first gear ("salvation through faith"), getting the car moving, and as soon as we try to change the gear to second ("good works") *BOOM* the engine throws the car back into first as we struggle to get moving.
Hmmm, it's interesting to hear all you've done, or, all others must do themselves. What did Christ do?

I'll tell you: he did it all.

Sanctification belongs to all the truly converted, Hebrews 12:14 and other things which accompany salvation, Hebrews 6:9. These things are descriptive of true believers, they're not things just some believers experience.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
All markup of your quote in Turquoise is mine NoNameMcgee (just to save on time)...



Like I said. It's like putting the car into first gear ("salvation through faith"), getting the car moving, and as soon as we try to change the gear to second ("good works") *BOOM* the engine throws the car back into first as we struggle to get moving.
are you conflating instruction for righteousness and losing salvation with titus?

i agree we are saved unto good works
(as in we ought to walk in the spirit.... deny the flesh and encourage our brothers and sister to do good works, and be a shining light to the lost)

but where you're wrong is
everyone who is called includes those who aren't born again

and everyone who is chosen (by grace) are those who have a saving (not dead) faith

those with a quickened spirit
those made new

and not a single one of His children (these who are chosen) will in no way be cast out....

praise God

regardless of the number of works
or how much fruit
or growth they experience
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
are you conflating instruction for righteousness and losing salvation with titus?

i agree we are saved unto good works
(as in we ought to walk in the spirit.... deny the flesh and encourage our brothers and sister to do good works, and be a shining light to the lost)

but where you're wrong is
everyone who is called includes those who aren't born again

and everyone who is chosen (by grace) are those who have a saving (not dead) faith

those with a quickened spirit
those made new

and not a single one of His children (these who are chosen) will in no way be cast out....

praise God

regardless of the number of works
or how much fruit
or growth they experience
whoops

i just mean not a single one of His children will be cast out

typed "in no way" on accident
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Let's stick with Scripture. :D



Hmmm, it's interesting to hear all you've done, or, all others must do themselves. What did Christ do?

I'll tell you: he did it all.

Sanctification belongs to all the truly converted, Hebrews 12:14 and other things which accompany salvation, Hebrews 6:9. These things are descriptive of true believers, they're not things just some believers experience.
AMEN.....It is finished = paid in full
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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If you're so sick and tired of it I would think you would stop doing that!
.

Sorry, this isn't the quote I was addressing. The person this was for is dc....

What point you're missing is Galatians 6:7-8. The apostasy is a judgement of God against those who, in "pride" refuse to humble themselves before God's authority. I wish I could share more, but if you prayerfully consider this passage, God will give you understanding. The mystery of iniquity is being deliberately miss taught. The word "let" is what you need to research.

May God forgive me for instructing you.
 
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.

Sorry, this isn't the quote I was addressing. The person this was for is dc....

What point you're missing is Galatians 6:7-8. The apostasy is a judgement of God against those who, in "pride" refuse to humble themselves before God's authority. I wish I could share more, but if you prayerfully consider this passage, God will give you understanding. The mystery of iniquity is being deliberately miss taught. The word "let" is what you need to research.

May God forgive me for instructing you.
No offence, but you instructed me in nothing.....and I have researched it.....for the last 27 years....................!
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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Because then they can TAKE CREDIT (which stems from PRIDE) for pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps and keeping themselves saved. Type 2 works salvation. :rolleyes:
Hi mailmandan, I am leaving you a private message to ask a favor.
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...
Amen God is faithful to His Word! Let us not forget to walk worthy though of our calling, lest we be recipients of reaping corruption from "the flesh". (Galatians 6-7&8)
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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No offence, but you instructed me in nothing.....and I have researched it.....for the last 27 years....................!
Oh, okay. Well that's good then. :) . Um, so what do you think the mystery of iniquity is?
 
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Oh, okay. Well that's good then. :) . Um, so what do you think the mystery of iniquity is?
Study the rise and fall of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome......and pay particular attention to the men who were worshiped as gods...............and then apply what happens at the end of the age.....you will see the continued attempt by Satan to be worshiped in a man as god.......hindered by God, because it was NOT YET TIME for history to come to fruition.....

Also, pay attention to the words of JESUS concerning PERGAMOS and the THRONE of SATAN being there.....

Horus is Bel is Marduke in Merodach is Jupiter is Zeus is Allah is Satan ----->IN A MAN <---BEAST/LITTLE HORN
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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That really doesn't answer my question. But I already know the answer. Thanks for your input. :)
 
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That really doesn't answer my question. But I already know the answer. Thanks for your input. :)

Sure it did......Satan has been attempting from the beginning to be worshiped as God in a man.....to mimic the SON of GOD, JESUS who is GOD in MAN and is worshiped....it started when he attempted to ASCEND into heaven and usurp Christ....he was cast down and he has been making the attempt non-stop since his first desire to ascend.....

The Mystery of Iniquity has been at work from day one and is seen in the above kingdoms mentioned and the men that were worshiped as GOD.........
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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What I'm getting at is what causes the great falling away. To what will the Church fall away to. I know that satan will indwell the antichrist, but what allows it to happen? That's the mystery of iniquity.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What I'm getting at is what causes the great falling away. To what will the Church fall away to. I know that satan will indwell the antichrist, but what allows it to happen? That's the mystery of iniquity.
The bible is clear...ALL who will not receive the love of the truth will be given strong delusion by God....I do not believe that one saved child of God will receive the mark and or follow the beast. The 1st and 2nd beast are given power to works ALL signs and lying wonders to the extent that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived.....I also believe the apo-hystamie and the MAN of SIN being revealed are tied together as one event....I.E. The apostasy is humanity receiving the beast as god and the worship of the man of sin/image of the beast as God......
 
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Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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You know I found that making us continually give account of our beliefs is one of the ways in which "they" wear us out. (Daniel) So I'm going to drop the subject. For both of our sales. :)