Abomination of Desolation

[KJV1611]

@iamsoandso

azamzimtoti may be right about the sins being forgiven in the age to come meaning the age we are in right now and not eternity... I'm not sure which it means.

 

[KJV1611]

Things the Scriptures say about the NE&NH and things that can happen only before it or in it,,.

I like the way you think soandso!

 

[iamsoandso]

@iamsoandso

azamzimtoti may be right about the sins being forgiven in the age to come meaning the age we are in right now and not eternity... I'm not sure which it means.

Ages, generations, dispensations, millennial days,,,we all speak a different language I think,,, same thing we just pronounce it different.

 

[KJV1611]

Ages, generations, dispensations, millennial days,,,we all speak a different language I think,,, same thing we just pronounce it different.

@iamsoandso

Heres something I discovered the other day while discussing the verse below in another thread for totally different reasons.

Mat 19:28 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

When the regeneration happens, the son of man takes his throne in other words he comes in his kingdom.

Here is that regeneration:

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[azamzimtoti]

The physical destruction of Israel isn't on the list of Daniel 9:24.

In a sense you are right K16, but to put an "end to the transgression", physical "Israel" "your people" of the flesh were destroyed.

(Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation)

Jesus in the above (this generation) states they were destroyed for their transgression.

70 weeks were determined upon thy people and thy city TO... do everything that follows in that verse. When those things were done, Israel as God's people were done. God gave them 40 years of hearing the gospel to repent and they would not. Then after God closed the door on mercy, Jerusalem was destroyed.

I would agree. And this puts the 70 weeks at the destruction in the war of AD 66-70.

If you want to see how it went down, look at Jonah 3 and replace Jonah's name with Jesus and Nineveh's name with Jerusalem.

Jon 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh (Jerusalem), that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
Jon 3:3 So Jonah (Jesus) arose, and went unto Nineveh (Jerusalem), according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh (Jerusalem) was an exceeding great city of three days (three days in hell) journey.
Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he (Jesus) cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh (Jerusalem) shall be overthrown.

Everything wont match perfectly because it's a foreshadow but hopefully you see my point.

You could argue Nineveh was a type, but I think that may be a stretch, and you don't need it to establish the 70 weeks.

 

[iamsoandso]

@iamsoandso

Heres something I discovered the other day while discussing the verse below in another thread for totally different reasons.

Mat 19:28 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

When the regeneration happens, the son of man takes his throne in other words he comes in his kingdom.o

Here is that regeneration:

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

So regeneration and restoration are they the same things?

 

[bibleprophecy]

Ezekiel sees the greatest abomination
Ezekiel 8:15 And he further said to me: “Do you see this, O son of man? You will see detestable things that are even more terrible than these.” 16 So he brought me to the inner courtyard of the house of Yehovah. There at the entrance of the temple of Yehovah, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs to the temple of Yehovah and their faces to the east; they were bowing down to the sun in the east.

Sun Worship

Know the difference between Sun Worship and keeping the Sabbath

 

[KJV1611]

In a sense you are right K16, but to put an "end to the transgression", physical "Israel" "your people" of the flesh were destroyed.

(Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation)

Jesus in the above (this generation) states they were destroyed for their transgression.



I would agree. And this puts the 70 weeks at the destruction in the war of AD 66-70.



You could argue Nineveh was a type, but I think that may be a stretch, and you don't need it to establish the 70 weeks.

I'm not going to beat you to death with this AZ but I want to try one more time to make my point and then I'll leave it alone.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Seventy times seven.... after 70x7 (seven things completed in 70 weeks) then there is NO FORGIVENESS.

Forgiveness was offered up until the END of the seventy weeks, then after that, the judgement. God was merciful and gave them 40 years AFTER the 70x7 was completed.

Daniel 9 is about REBUILDING the tabernacle of David which had fallen down under the leadership of the Jews.
It isn't about bringing judgement and destruction to Israel, it is about bringing in the new heaven, heavenly Jerusalem.

The little blurb about the prince that shall come, is just that, a little side note which is not prophesied to happen within the 70 weeks.

 

[garee]

I'm not going to beat you to death with this AZ but I want to try one more time to make my point and then I'll leave it alone.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Seventy times seven.... after 70x7 (seven things completed in 70 weeks) then there is NO FORGIVENESS.

Forgiveness was offered up until the END of the seventy weeks, then after that, the judgement. God was merciful and gave them 40 years AFTER the 70x7 was completed.

Daniel 9 is about REBUILDING the tabernacle of David which had fallen down under the leadership of the Jews.
It isn't about bringing judgement and destruction to Israel, it is about bringing in the new heaven, heavenly Jerusalem.

The little blurb about the prince that shall come, is just that, a little side note which is not prophesied to happen within the 70 weeks.

Forgiveness never comes in respect to pagan temples made with human hands .God is not served in any shape or form by human hands .

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in the unseen Holy place of the father as a abomination of desolation

Matthew 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God

 

[KJV1611]

Forgiveness never comes in respect to pagan temples made with human hands .God is not served in any shape or form by human hands .

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in the unseen Holy place of the father as a abomination of desolation

Matthew 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God

I’m not following you Garee. I wasn't talking about any temple.

The point that I was making is that when Jesus said to forgive a man seventy times seven times, he was telling them that he was FULFILLING Daniel 9.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Next Jesus goes on to say THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is like a CERTAIN KING that would TAKE ACCOUNT of his servants.

Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[KJV1611]

So regeneration and restoration are they the same things?

In my opinion regeneration and restoration mean the same thing but there is a period of time in the bible that is called the regeneration.

The regeneration happens when Jesus sits on his throne of glory. At that time, we are cleansed by the washing of regeneration, which is to say, by the washing of the word of God. We are in the regeneration right now.

Basically this is just another example showing that Christ has already came in his power and glory and is sitting on the throne of glory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not going to beat you to death with this AZ but I want to try one more time to make my point and then I'll leave it alone.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Seventy times seven.... after 70x7 (seven things completed in 70 weeks) then there is NO FORGIVENESS.

Forgiveness was offered up until the END of the seventy weeks, then after that, the judgement. God was merciful and gave them 40 years AFTER the 70x7 was completed.

Daniel 9 is about REBUILDING the tabernacle of David which had fallen down under the leadership of the Jews.
It isn't about bringing judgement and destruction to Israel, it is about bringing in the new heaven, heavenly Jerusalem.

The little blurb about the prince that shall come, is just that, a little side note which is not prophesied to happen within the 70 weeks.

No

Daniel 9 is about daniel calling on god for mercy, because according to the prophet, they would be slaves for 70 years and the 70 years were up, and isreal still had not repented.

He was praying for his people, his city and his house and asking god to remember the promise he made to his fathers,

Gabriel was sent to answer this prayer.

 

[KJV1611]

No

Daniel 9 is about daniel calling on god for mercy, because according to the prophet, they would be slaves for 70 years and the 70 years were up, and isreal still had not repented.

He was praying for his people, his city and his house and asking god to remember the promise he made to his fathers,

Gabriel was sent to answer this prayer.

I agree Daniel was praying for his people, but Gabriel didn't come to answer his prayers. Gabriel came to SHOW DANIEL and help Daniel UNDERSTAND THE VISION that Daniel had BEFORE he began to pray.

Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Those visions had nothing to do with Daniel's captivity.
What part of Daniel's prayer are saying Gabriel answered?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree Daniel was praying for his people, but Gabriel didn't come to answer his prayers. Gabriel came to SHOW DANIEL and help Daniel UNDERSTAND THE VISION that Daniel had BEFORE he began to pray.

Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Those visions had nothing to do with Daniel's captivity.
What part of Daniel's prayer are saying Gabriel answered?

Well you can believe that if you want, but god does not work that way,

But gabriel came to answer his prayers, we know that by his words..

 

[KJV1611]

Well you can believe that if you want, but god does not work that way,

But gabriel came to answer his prayers, we know that by his words..

Ok if Gabriel came to answer Daniel's prayer then how did he answer it?

 

[azamzimtoti]

I'm not going to beat you to death with this AZ but I want to try one more time to make my point and then I'll leave it alone.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Seventy times seven.... after 70x7 (seven things completed in 70 weeks) then there is NO FORGIVENESS.

Forgiveness was offered up until the END of the seventy weeks, then after that, the judgement. God was merciful and gave them 40 years AFTER the 70x7 was completed.

Daniel 9 is about REBUILDING the tabernacle of David which had fallen down under the leadership of the Jews.
It isn't about bringing judgement and destruction to Israel, it is about bringing in the new heaven, heavenly Jerusalem.

The little blurb about the prince that shall come, is just that, a little side note which is not prophesied to happen within the 70 weeks.

I'm not really following your point in regards to Israel K16.

Who do you think Isaiah is speaking about here:

(Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not)
.
.
(Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name)

How would those "the Lord God shall slay" be any other entity than 1st century AD apostate Israel? And that "slaying" to be done by the end of the 70 weeks when the "new heavens and earth" created?

(Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok if Gabriel came to answer Daniel's prayer then how did he answer it?

It was already explained to you

Its there in black and white, (scripture) read it

When the prophecy is completed, Israel will no longer be in sin, and the city and temple will no longer be in ruins because of her sin

Also, read lev 26 to get context

 

[KJV1611]

I'm not really following your point in regards to Israel K16.

Who do you think Isaiah is speaking about here:

(Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not)
.
.
(Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name)

How would those "the Lord God shall slay" be any other entity than 1st century AD apostate Israel? And that "slaying" to be done by the end of the 70 weeks when the "new heavens and earth" created?

(Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind)

Isaiah is talking about slaughtering the Jews and it did happen in 70 AD. All I am saying is that the slaughter happens OUTSIDE of the 70 weeks. It's outside of the 70 weeks by 40 years.

Bear with me on this because I think it's something you're really going to like when you see my point.

In 70 weeks those seven items will be completed. Do you agree?

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

The annihilation of the Jews IS NOT on that list. Do you agree?

 

[KJV1611]

It was already explained to you

Its there in black and white, (scripture) read it

When the prophecy is completed, Israel will no longer be in sin, and the city and temple will no longer be in ruins because of her sin

Also, read lev 26 to get context

I asked you where Gabriel answered Daniel's prayer. Why are you going off on a tangent about Israel will no longer be in sin. Daniel 9 has nothing whatsoever to do with that.

Just don't worry about it EG, you and I are miles apart on this.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Isaiah is talking about slaughtering the Jews and it did happen in 70 AD. All I am saying is that the slaughter happens OUTSIDE of the 70 weeks. It's outside of the 70 weeks by 40 years.

So when are you thinking the 70 weeks ended then?

Bear with me on this because I think it's something you're really going to like when you see my point.

In 70 weeks those seven items will be completed. Do you agree?

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. Make an end of sins.
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision.
6. To seal up the prophecy.
7. To anoint the most Holy.

The annihilation of the Jews IS NOT on that list. Do you agree?

While it may not be directly stated as "annihilation" I think to "finish the transgression" is directly related to the final demise of apostate Israel in the war of AD 66-70 AD who were transgressing the Law which included persecution of the 1st century church.

Also you need to factor in the passing of the OT and the temple representing the things that could be shaken with the things that cannot be shaken:

(Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.)

This is part of the 70 weeks. The bringing in of everlasting righteousness was only fully completed when the righteousness according to the Law was destroyed when the old covenant finally waxed old and became obsolete in it's vanishing away:

(Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away).

The shaking of the old was still to come when Hebrews was written and is related to the destruction of the temple/law system in the AD 66 war.