How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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"Christ comes FOR His saints. But at the Second Coming Christ comes to earth WITH His saints"

Yes.
Two different times.
Two different locations.
Two different audiences.
Two different purposes.

I really cannot fathom how people can fail to recognize these distinctions.
Dear Brother, i clearly see the Lord's Second Coming in Scripture - only One Time - the Two locations are actually One Location.

One location in His First Comings as son of man.
The Same Two different audiences in His First Coming
The Same Two different purposes in His First Coming
One location in His Second Coming - this Realm called Earth that includes 3 Elements as recorded in Genesis = Water, Sky, Earth(Dirt etc).

His Second Coming in the Air is to gather His Elect = Matt 24:21, 1 Thess 4
No where in Scripture - NO WHERE - can you find a pre-trib rapture.

Scripture cannot lie - for this reason i offer the Truth Challenge - which you are aware of

When you 'add to and take away' from Scripture, which is forbidden, you will see things that DO NOT EXIST.

Mr. Twister (Watermark) cannot find a scripture and neither can any pre-trib error find one.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Great idea, Amanuensis! Let's exegete 1 Thess. 4:17 for starters, in the Greek! I'll help!

"Then we who are alive, who are left,[a] will be suddenly caught up[b] together[c] with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17 NET

Footnotes
  1. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 tc The words οἱ περιλειπόμενοι (hoi perileipomenoi, “[the ones] who are left”) are lacking in F G 0226vid ar b as well as a few fathers, but the rest of the textual tradition has the words. Most likely, the Western mssomitted the words because of perceived redundancy with οἱ ζῶντες (hoi zōntes, “[the ones] who are alive”).
  2. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 tn Or “snatched up.” The Greek verb ἁρπάζω implies that the action is quick or forceful, so the translation supplied the adverb “suddenly” to make this implicit notion clear.
  3. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 tn Or “simultaneously,” but this meaning does not fit as well in the parallel in 5:10.
I've left in the footnotes, just for a cross reference. NET has 66K footnotes, I find them helpful & accurate.

Now, let us look at it in Greek!

"ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17 SBLGNT

There are some key words in the Greek. They are translated correctly into Greek, but the full connotation of the word in Greek, does not come through in English.

ἔπειτα - epeita then, following, The word denotes the speeding following of the event specified upon what has gone before.

ζῶντες - zovtes Present, active participle, from zao, to live alive.

περιλειπόμενοι - pereleipomenoi Pres. Pass. Part. To leave behind.

ἁρπαγησόμεθα -harpagesometha fut indicative, passive. To snatch up, to seize, to carry off by force. The word often denotes the emotion of a sudden swoop, and usually a force that cannot be resisted.

ἀπάντησιν apantesin meeting. The word had a technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visits of dignitaries to cities where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens or a deputation of them, who went out from the city, and then would ceremonially escort him back to the city. The 2 other occurrences are Matt 25:6, where the virgins go out to meet their husband and accompany him back; and Acts 28:15 where the people go out from Rome to meet Paul and escort him back to Rome. Nothing about going away, forever. Rather, a meeting which returns back to home.

ἀέρα - aera acc. Singular, from aer - air.

πάντοτε - pantote - always

ἐσόμεθα - esometha - future, indicative mid. (Dep.) eimi - to be.

Starting near the end, we have the word "aera" or air in English. The air is the air around us. The air we breathe. It is the air around the earth. It is not heaven or heavens, which would be ouranos. So, nothing about going to heaven, just meeting the Lord in the clouds in the air around us. Do we jump up and down for joy, or are we literally grabbed up a bit into the atmosphere? It really doesn't matter. What matters, is that we are not going far, and in fact, going back!

The word for "left behind" found in the fictional Left Behind series, is not about unbelievers being left behind, while everyone else is raptured, as Dispensationalism supposes. In fact, the verse starts with this word, "Then we, the living ones who are left behind." Some kind of leaving behind has already occurred. Are they left behind after the ruin of Jerusalem? (Paul died much too early for this) Or is it more likely, in context with verse 16, which is the dead in Christ, rising first. In fact, the Christians living in this time, will have been left behind. So, living or alive believers are in fact the ones being left behind. Verse 15 also says, "we the living, who remain at the coming of the Lord.." ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ κυρίου.

Harpazo, in the passive, was used by Paul, might have been making a play of the words, Plutarch, his contemporary, used the word, or compound word for those who die an untimely death and thus are "disadvantaged" in that they are "snatched away" from the opportunity for education, marriage, citizenship and so on. In the passive, Paul emphasizes it is brought about by a force outside the individual.

The word for "meeting" apantesis is used in the LXX (Greek OT) for God's meetings with Abraham, (Gen. 14:17) with David, (2 Sam. 10:16) and with the Israelites at Sinai (Ex. 19:17). The implication of Paul's use of this word here, is that the resurrected dead and living, together will meet the Lord, descending "in the air" and accompany him in glory and honor the rest of his way to earth.

Paul's emphasis in these verses is not on the sequence, details or direction, but the outcome and then result. He assures the Thessalonians that's contrary to what some of them might have thought, both groups, the living and the dead, will end up together. The most important point in all this is the result. ALL believers in Jesus, whether alive or dead at the time of his Parousia (Second Coming) "will be with the Lord forever." Some Thessalonians thought that death (still influenced by pagan perspectives) would be an insurmountable barrier, preventing those followers of Jesus who died before the Parousia from experiencing the presence of Jesus, is in reality, no barrier at all. Here is the real antidote to the grief some Thessalonians were experiencing. The final destiny of Christians who died before the Parousia is not death, but rather resurrection to life with the Lord forever. And here on earth! This information should be used, according to verse 18, "to encourage one another."

So, in fact, this verse is speaking of the parousia, (coming) of Jesus, and it has close parallels to the Oliver Discourse in the Synoptic Gospels. There is no "rapture" to heaven at all in this verse, but rather believers meeting Jesus and returning to earth with him, at the Second Coming.


Here are some books I consulted:

Holmes, Michael W. The NIV Application Commentary: 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

Wanamaker, Charles A. The New International Greek Testament Commentary NIGTC: The Epistle to the Thessalonians.

Rogers, Cleon L. Jr & Cleon L. Rogers III. The New Linguistic & Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament.

For a complete bibliography of each book, contact me.
That's a lot of parsing. But conceptually you fail to recognize That the bride of Christ is one body. It never was nor will it ever be divided. Certainly not in terms of being raptured.
 
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That's a lot of parsing. But conceptually you fail to recognize That the bride of Christ is one body. It never was nor will it ever be divided. Certainly not in terms of being raptured.
Pre-trib error divides the Body of Christ. It teaches a rapture before the First Resurrection.
 
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That is plainly nonsensical. "No rapture" in the key passage which reveals the Resurrection/Rapture! Amazing how people will try to twist the Scriptures to fit their man-made theologies.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. In the first appearance Christ comes FOR His saints. But at the Second Coming Christ comes to earth WITH His saints and angels. In between we have the Marriage of the Lamb, which means that one aspect of the Rapture is the Divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride (the Church). But since the Bride must be spotless, the saints are perfected and glorified at the Rapture (1 John 3:1-3 and other passages).

The truth is that most Christians do not really understand the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture. Instead we find attacks on Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, Lindsey, etc. as though these men had no understanding of the Scriptures. But whenever a Bible doctrine is under attack, it behooves every person to carefully study the Scriptures for themselves, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible shows us that the Resurrection/Rapture is the culmination of salvation, hence "the Blessed Hope" of the saints.
You said: "There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. In the first appearance Christ comes FOR His saints. But at the Second Coming Christ comes to earth WITH His saints and angels."

Your statement as i noted above is a lie and is forbidden by God. You added to Scripture what it does not say.

This is Truth = 1 Thessalonians 4 = Christ is Coming with the Saints for the Resurrection in His First Appearance

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Dear Brother, i clearly see the Lord's Second Coming in Scripture - only One Time - the Two locations are actually One Location.

One location in His First Comings as son of man.
The Same Two different audiences in His First Coming
The Same Two different purposes in His First Coming
One location in His Second Coming - this Realm called Earth that includes 3 Elements as recorded in Genesis = Water, Sky, Earth(Dirt etc).

His Second Coming in the Air is to gather His Elect = Matt 24:21, 1 Thess 4
No where in Scripture - NO WHERE - can you find a pre-trib rapture.

Scripture cannot lie - for this reason i offer the Truth Challenge - which you are aware of

When you 'add to and take away' from Scripture, which is forbidden, you will see things that DO NOT EXIST.

Mr. Twister (Watermark) cannot find a scripture and neither can any pre-trib error find one.
Comparing scripture with scripture, the pretrib rapture is......Inevitable.
 
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Comparing scripture with scripture, the pretrib rapture is......Inevitable.
The First Resurrection is inevitable - After that the Rapture is inevitable = by the word of the LORD.

Brother, you know i love you - we share the same Salvation which is our Great JOY and our longing for Him.

Take this Joy one step further, and in so doing you stop from pleasing men and go 100% into pleasing God alone.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

This is an opportunity to receive from the Holy Spirit what man has divided in His Body.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Pre-trib error divides the Body of Christ. It teaches a rapture before the First Resurrection.
Incorrect. There are subsets of the greater set. The church the body is a subset of the greater set of the first resurrection. The greater set, the first resurrection includes Old testament Saints as well. Such as Daniel who will be resurrected after the great tribulation in the millennium to Receive his inheritance.
 
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Incorrect. There are subsets of the greater set. The church the body is a subset of the greater set of the first resurrection. The greater set, the first resurrection includes Old testament Saints as well. Such as Daniel who will be resurrected after the great tribulation in the millennium to Receive his inheritance.
YES 100% - no one is Left Behind as pre-trib teaches.

You will rejoice in His Truth my brother - i know you will.

When does the First Resurrection occur? Find this answer according to Scripture and you have the TRUTH.
 

cv5

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This is lolx100 - You and others cannot show a single Scripture of 'pre-trib' rapture.
There isn't a single scripture there are a ton of scriptures. From genesis to revelation.
 
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There isn't a single scripture there are a ton of scriptures. From genesis to revelation.
And yet - no pre-tribber can find one and post a Scripture that declares the Body of Christ is pre-trib raptured.

*** IMPORTATNT *** = Tribulation is not God's Wrath as some have confused them. ALL His Children are delivered from His wrath.
 
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Dear Brother CS1, i see you leaving the X's on my post's - do you have Truth in the Word to share that can bring Light to me since you so strongly disagree.
 

CS1

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Dear Brother CS1, i see you leaving the X's on my post's - do you have Truth in the Word to share that can bring Light to me since you so strongly disagree.
Hi DavidTree I do not like the term Pretriber nor do I agree with your post :) that what the red X means I have them too :).

The Pretrib Rapture is supported by Scripture as is also the mid-trib the least one is No rapture.

For the sake of unity the church as always no matter what side you hold teaches the doctrine of "imminent Return of Christ".

Although I believe in the rapture of the Church is biblical, ONly the Father Knows when Christ will return. Therefore It is not essential to be side about the Rapture as it is to Be ready every day to meet the Lord, 1 by death, 2. His soon coming.

It seems you are more concerned about being right than at another expense, instead of seeing where you and I can be wrong.

What is better we come together and trying to help others get ready for the Coming of the Lord, or to get them ready to meet them before they die?

Does my Pretrib Rapture mean my salvation is not valid? Does not accepting the PreTrib Rapture mean you are not saved?

NO!.

Therefore, you don't know and could be wrong as I can be, correct?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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And yet - no pre-tribber can find one and post a Scripture that declares the Body of Christ is pre-trib raptured.

*** IMPORTATNT *** = as some have confused them. ALL His Children are delivered from His wrath.
"Tribulation is not God's Wrath"

No you are wrong about that. The 70th week of Daniel, Begins at the revealing of the man of sin rev 6:2. The "wrath of God" is stated Or implied 11 times after that point.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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And yet - no pre-tribber can find one and post a Scripture that declares the Body of Christ is pre-trib raptured.

*** IMPORTATNT *** = Tribulation is not God's Wrath as some have confused them. ALL His Children are delivered from His wrath.
Revelation 3:10......
 
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Hi DavidTree I do not like the term Pretriber nor do I agree with your post :) that what the red X means I have them too :).

The Pretrib Rapture is supported by Scripture as is also the mid-trib the least one is No rapture.

For the sake of unity the church as always no matter what side you hold teaches the doctrine of "imminent Return of Christ".

Although I believe in the rapture of the Church is biblical, ONly the Father Knows when Christ will return. Therefore It is not essential to be side about the Rapture as it is to Be ready every day to meet the Lord, 1 by death, 2. His soon coming.

It seems you are more concerned about being right than at another expense, instead of seeing where you and I can be wrong.

What is better we come together and trying to help others get ready for the Coming of the Lord, or to get them ready to meet them before they die?

Does my Pretrib Rapture mean my salvation is not valid? Does not accepting the PreTrib Rapture mean you are not saved?

NO!.

Therefore, you don't know and could be wrong as I can be, correct?
Follow your own words Brother - You felt it necessary to X - not me.
You feel it necessary to divide - not me.
You are more concerned with pre-trib error then what God says.

If you truly love the Truth, then it should be your goal and delight to seek it out and love it.

If you hold to pre-trib error then you are a pre-tribber - that you will defend and hate your brother over.

Jesus said: By our words we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned.

Those who hold tightly to pre-trib error refuse to kneel before Scripture that clearly refutes it - this is willful sin that is Division and is rooted in Pride.

God is calling all in the Body of Christ to repentance - few are listening.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22

For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10

This is how you please God =
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:35

"Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth" - John 17:17

If you 'add to or take away" from God's Word (pre-trib rapture) you commit sin and God is not pleased by it.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Follow your own words Brother - You felt it necessary to X - not me.
You feel it necessary to divide - not me.
You are more concerned with pre-trib error then what God says.

If you truly love the Truth, then it should be your goal and delight to seek it out and love it.

If you hold to pre-trib error then you are a pre-tribber - that you will defend and hate your brother over.

Jesus said: By our words we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned.

Those who hold tightly to pre-trib error refuse to kneel before Scripture that clearly refutes it - this is willful sin that is Division and is rooted in Pride.

God is calling all in the Body of Christ to repentance - few are listening.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22

For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10

This is how you please God =
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:35

"Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth" - John 17:17

If you 'add to or take away" from God's Word (pre-trib rapture) you commit sin and God is not pleased by it.

no, id the red X going to hurt your feeling I will remove it :) as it opinion, which I can be wrong. I will not hold my breath for others to say the same thing :).

The Pretrib Rapture as I said is supported in the word of God. You have a bias and trying to attack me for my position on this which you failed to read where I said I can be wrong, You are only wanting to be right.

Now you call me a liar.
 
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Revelation 3:10......
See, i know you love me in Christ - you are willing to share, in love, with Scripture alone - Amen

Here is the entire passage connected to the church in Philadelphia - Revelation 7-13
To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open.
I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door, which no one can shut. For you have only a little strength, yet you have kept My word and have not denied My name. Look at those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead. I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you.
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

This is 100% TRUTH and is Beautiful . No pre-trib rapture here but this is what was spoken in 1 Thess ch 4 and in Matt 24

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.
John 17
 
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no, id the red X going to hurt your feeling I will remove it :) as it opinion, which I can be wrong. I will not hold my breath for others to say the same thing :).

The Pretrib Rapture as I said is supported in the word of God. You have a bias and trying to attack me for my position on this which you failed to read where I said I can be wrong, You are only wanting to be right.

Now you call me a liar.
i do not mind the red X - what is important is that you and i get to know one another and love one another - this is important to God and the whole Body.

Red X is a good thing when something completely wrong/bad/heresy is said - it should also be backed up with a Scripture to show where the disagreement comes from - amen

If pre-trib was from God He would of declared it in His Word. - No one who believes in pre-trib can show a single Scripture that declares it as Truth.

Do you deny the Order of Scripture in 1 Thessalonians ch 4 ?