Do you believe in Spiritual gifts?

[zone]

Of the (6) billion+ people that live on this planet, are they all free from being oppressed of the devil?

hi Redster

'Of the (6) billion+ people that live on this planet', (mostly gentiles/NATIONS) how many have heard the Gospel? how many have heard of the name of Jesus? how many will hear? MANY (kindreds tongues and nations, more than any man could number in heaven we are told)

where does it say ANYWHERE that the "binding" of satan means NO SIN OR REBELLION or PEACE? or that he can't do stuff? it doesn't

even dispensationalism (which has him bound for a future 1,000 years) has rebellion, sin, capital punishment going on DURING the millennium. then total anarchy AFTER that.

Luke 11
Jesus and Beelzebul
14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons,” 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven. 17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls. 18 And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. 19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; 22 but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil. 23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

what is Jesus saying, above (bolded)?

the subject is Satan (Beelzebul).

is Jesus saying His Kingdom had come?

is He saying One stronger than Satan had come, attacked and overcame him; took away his (satan's)armour in which he trusted, and was now TAKING AWAY HIS SPOILS?

how can Satan's kingdom be plundered if satan is not restrained in some way from ruling the entire world in darkness and keeping away THE LIGHT?

what did Jesus mean?

here it is again in Matthew:

Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

yes, we KNOW the wheat and the tares grow together RIGHT UP TO THE HARVEST.

it doesn't matter if you place one harvest at the end of this age, then another after a literal 1,000 years: you STILL have wheat and tares growing together.

there is NOTHING but speculation and ideas laid on to the texts in dispensational eschatology that says satan is paralyzed in a straightjacket unable to do a thing in the future 1,000 years....so why not consider the alternative?

that it is the PLUNDERING of his kingdom that Jesus secured!

look what Paul says about his own conversion:

Acts 26
15 And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, 17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you 18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

???

Jesus is SENDING PAUL (the Apostle to the NATIONS - gentiles) "so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’"

that's all it means.

here's Paul saying it again:

Ephesians 2
One in Christ
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Rev. 20 says satan is "bound" and unable to deceive (blind/keep in darkness) the NATIONS (gentiles) for the "thousand years".....AFTER that (at the end of this age) he must be loosed for a little season/short space, etc....which is exactly when God is sending strong delusion on the world (2 Thess 2)

there's ONLY this age, and the age to come (eternity).

love zone.

 

[zone]

hi Redster

Rev. 20 says satan is "bound" and unable to deceive (blind/keep in darkness) the NATIONS (gentiles) for the "thousand years".....AFTER that (at the end of this age) he must be loosed for a little season/short space, etc....which is exactly when God is sending strong delusion on the world (2 Thess 2)

there's ONLY this age, and the age to come (eternity).

love zone.

ps Redster....

if JESUS Himself can say "BINDS the strongman", why can't John use the same language in Rev 20?

 

[zone]

ps Redster....

if JESUS Himself can say "BINDS the strongman", why can't John use the same language in Rev 20?

Isaiah 49
24Can plunder be taken from warriors,
or captives rescued from the fierce?

25But this is what the Lord says:
“Yes, captives will be taken from warriors,
and plunder retrieved from the fierce;

Mark 3:27
In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

~

here's Isaiah concerning the Babylonian captivity:

Isaiah 24:22
They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon; they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days.

the children were carried away bound...but they were not ACTUALLY shut up in prison or a dungeon (it's a figure of speech).

 

[Abiding]

Isa. 50:11

 

[AnandaHya]

Isa. 50:11

????

Isaiah 50:11
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Look, all you who kindle a fire,
Who encircle yourselves with sparks:
Walk in the light of your fire and in the sparks you have kindled—
This you shall have from My hand:
You shall lie down in torment.

 

[Red33]

Satan is not bound.
Satan is very much hard at work because he knows he has but a short time. He will be bound upon the return of the Lord. How can anyone believe otherwise, when Scripture is pretty clear? It blows me away.............

Zone has tried to answer as best she could in her own understanding, but we are all subject to the whole counsel of God in this matter. She is not able to effectively reconcile what the scriptures testify concerning Satan (the devil) and his activity and devices that he is continually using to hinder and prevail against the church that began with those that believed upon the Lord after His ascension. The doctrine of Satan, in relationship to the NT church, throws a huge hole in the doctrine of the amillennialist and takes that which they symbolize and allows for a literal interpretation to guide and give us a better and more sound understanding of the times that we live in relationship to Christ and the church.

This is my opinion only. When Satan rebelled and was corrupted through the iniquity found in him (Ez 28:15, Is 14:13,14), Satan fell as lightning from the third heaven (Lk 10:18) unto the atmosphere of the first heaven just above the earth (Eph 2:2). In this sphere of influence he has the power to control many of the sciences and phenomenon associated within that atmosphere that is attached to the sphere of the earth. He has had access to the earth starting in the garden through the serpent (Gen 3:13, 2Cor 11:3, Rev 12:9) and directly with Christ in the wilderness when he tempted him (Mt 4:1, Lk 4:2).

Satan, as the prince and power of the air (the lower denser atmosphere), has been able to manipulate and manufacture the circuit of the winds (Eccl 1:6) as he did in (Lk 8:22-25) when a storm of wind came upon the boat and in (Jn 6:16-21) when the sea arose by reason of a great wind. I also believe that the house that Jesus is referring to in (Mt 7:24-29), that is built on the word and wisdom of God (Eph 3:10), is the church and the wind that blew upon the house is the devil trying to prevail (Mt 16:18) and come against that house through the stormy winds of doctrine (Eph 4:14). There are certain ones according to (Jude 12) that feed themselves and are carried about by the winds of seducing doctrine in (1Tim 4:1) and that turn away from the truth of sound doctrine unto fables (2Tim 4:3,4). They are described in (2Pt 2:17) as wells without water, clouds who are carried under a violent wind or tempest and are driven.

Satan has been developing a counterfeit 'wind' (Jn 3:8) of the Holy Spirit through the breath of his own wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14) because he knows that all scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 3:16) and that this 'breath' or 'wind' brought life into the soul of man (Gen 2:7). Satan has been substituting and counterfeiting the inspiration of God through he own breathing out of his own understanding and words of doctrine to seduce and beguile the believer (2Cor 11:3) and to blind the minds of those that do not believe (2Cor 4:4). This is why it is so vital that we have the words of Christ (full of grace and truth with spirit and life) hid in our heart dwelling richly (Ps 119:11, Col 3:16), that we may do the following...

Eph 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand . 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[AnandaHya]

what does satan being bound and dispensationalism, have to do with spiritual gifts?


James 1: 12 - 18

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

 

[zone]

what does satan being bound and dispensationalism, have to do with spiritual gifts?


James 1: 12 - 18

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

it's related.
why do you post "spiritual gifts" in every thread?

find out what dispensationalism really turns out to be.

 

[zone]

Zone has tried to answer as best she could in her own understanding, but we are all subject to the whole counsel of God in this matter. She is not able to effectively reconcile what the scriptures testify concerning Satan (the devil) and his activity and devices that he is continually using to hinder and prevail against the church that began with those that believed upon the Lord after His ascension. The doctrine of Satan, in relationship to the NT church, throws a huge hole in the doctrine of the amillennialist and takes that which they symbolize and allows for a literal interpretation to guide and give us a better and more sound understanding of the times that we live in relationship to Christ and the church.

This is my opinion only. When Satan rebelled and was corrupted through the iniquity found in him (Ez 28:15, Is 14:13,14), Satan fell as lightning from the third heaven (Lk 10:18) unto the atmosphere of the first heaven just above the earth (Eph 2:2). In this sphere of influence he has the power to control many of the sciences and phenomenon associated within that atmosphere that is attached to the sphere of the earth. He has had access to the earth starting in the garden through the serpent (Gen 3:13, 2Cor 11:3, Rev 12:9) and directly with Christ in the wilderness when he tempted him (Mt 4:1, Lk 4:2).

Satan, as the prince and power of the air (the lower denser atmosphere), has been able to manipulate and manufacture the circuit of the winds (Eccl 1:6) as he did in (Lk 8:22-25) when a storm of wind came upon the boat and in (Jn 6:16-21) when the sea arose by reason of a great wind. I also believe that the house that Jesus is referring to in (Mt 7:24-29), that is built on the word and wisdom of God (Eph 3:10), is the church and the wind that blew upon the house is the devil trying to prevail (Mt 16:18) and come against that house through the stormy winds of doctrine (Eph 4:14). There are certain ones according to (Jude 12) that feed themselves and are carried about by the winds of seducing doctrine in (1Tim 4:1) and that turn away from the truth of sound doctrine unto fables (2Tim 4:3,4). They are described in (2Pt 2:17) as wells without water, clouds who are carried under a violent wind or tempest and are driven.

Satan has been developing a counterfeit 'wind' (Jn 3:8) of the Holy Spirit through the breath of his own wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14) because he knows that all scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 3:16) and that this 'breath' or 'wind' brought life into the soul of man (Gen 2:7). Satan has been substituting and counterfeiting the inspiration of God through he own breathing out of his own understanding and words of doctrine to seduce and beguile the believer (2Cor 11:3) and to blind the minds of those that do not believe (2Cor 4:4). This is why it is so vital that we have the words of Christ (full of grace and truth with spirit and life) hid in our heart dwelling richly (Ps 119:11, Col 3:16), that we may do the following...

Eph 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand . 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

hi Redster.
thanks for admitting most of that is your opinion.
love zonest


PRETRIB RAPTURE (inextricably tied to Dispensational theology - Scofield - which is tied to KINGDOM NOW, judaized christianity/christian zionism) REFUTED BY PAUL:

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[saintnickk]

The bible speaks of gifts, but they are to glorify God not self. Often I see gifts glorifying self, that worries me, the world is watching

 

[AnandaHya]

it's related.
why do you post "spiritual gifts" in every thread?

find out what dispensationalism really turns out to be.

why do you have issues with spiritual gifts? or me posting about them?

I like the reminder that everything is a gift from God and not from ourselves. So that we should always be thankful for everything God has given us and not become conceited and think it is through our own merits or understanding that any Truth is revealed but only through the grace of God.

that our words are of no importance unless they reflect and magnify GOD and give glory to Him.

 

[silverwind]

Zone has tried to answer as best she could in her own understanding, but we are all subject to the whole counsel of God in this matter. She is not able to effectively reconcile what the scriptures testify concerning Satan (the devil) and his activity and devices that he is continually using to hinder and prevail against the church that began with those that believed upon the Lord after His ascension. The doctrine of Satan, in relationship to the NT church, throws a huge hole in the doctrine of the amillennialist and takes that which they symbolize and allows for a literal interpretation to guide and give us a better and more sound understanding of the times that we live in relationship to Christ and the church.

This is my opinion only. When Satan rebelled and was corrupted through the iniquity found in him (Ez 28:15, Is 14:13,14), Satan fell as lightning from the third heaven (Lk 10:18) unto the atmosphere of the first heaven just above the earth (Eph 2:2). In this sphere of influence he has the power to control many of the sciences and phenomenon associated within that atmosphere that is attached to the sphere of the earth. He has had access to the earth starting in the garden through the serpent (Gen 3:13, 2Cor 11:3, Rev 12:9) and directly with Christ in the wilderness when he tempted him (Mt 4:1, Lk 4:2).

Satan, as the prince and power of the air (the lower denser atmosphere), has been able to manipulate and manufacture the circuit of the winds (Eccl 1:6) as he did in (Lk 8:22-25) when a storm of wind came upon the boat and in (Jn 6:16-21) when the sea arose by reason of a great wind. I also believe that the house that Jesus is referring to in (Mt 7:24-29), that is built on the word and wisdom of God (Eph 3:10), is the church and the wind that blew upon the house is the devil trying to prevail (Mt 16:18) and come against that house through the stormy winds of doctrine (Eph 4:14). There are certain ones according to (Jude 12) that feed themselves and are carried about by the winds of seducing doctrine in (1Tim 4:1) and that turn away from the truth of sound doctrine unto fables (2Tim 4:3,4). They are described in (2Pt 2:17) as wells without water, clouds who are carried under a violent wind or tempest and are driven.

Satan has been developing a counterfeit 'wind' (Jn 3:8) of the Holy Spirit through the breath of his own wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14) because he knows that all scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 3:16) and that this 'breath' or 'wind' brought life into the soul of man (Gen 2:7). Satan has been substituting and counterfeiting the inspiration of God through he own breathing out of his own understanding and words of doctrine to seduce and beguile the believer (2Cor 11:3) and to blind the minds of those that do not believe (2Cor 4:4). This is why it is so vital that we have the words of Christ (full of grace and truth with spirit and life) hid in our heart dwelling richly (Ps 119:11, Col 3:16), that we may do the following...

Eph 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand . 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Thanks so much! You always put things so simple.