The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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Jan 31, 2021
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Your last sentences tend to make me believe you are pushing hyper grace.

Not sure
Yeah, that's always a problem; too much grace. Right.

This is what the Bible says about grace:

James 4:6 -
But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

So, just keep on pushing your anti-grace opinion with the perjorative "hyper-grace" comments.

ps: "more grace" doesn't have a limit. Or prove otherwise.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was delivered up for the offences of all those given to Him in Election, and bore their sins in His Body on the Tree, He did meet all the Judicial demands of the law [ on their behalf ] and having satisfied, made propitiation to the Righteous Wrath of God, He was Raised from the Dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

They, the Sheep were raised up together with Him to Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

And so He was raised again because of their Justification, and to deny this is to deny the Gospel !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I went back and i may have read that wrong....if i did...my apologies.

Seems like you did a good job.
Not really ...

brightfame52 said:
Now if we preach not this Resurrection, we do Preach another Christ, for to say that none of the members of the Head Christ are not Justified before they believe, is like saying the Head of those members is not Justified before God until all His members believe, which is absurd and a attempt to overthrow the blessed significance of Christ's Resurrection, which also subverts His accomplishment by His Death !
That sentence makes no sense as it is a run on sentence, it contains double negative, and it states as fact that which is supposition.

It is not true that believers are justified before they believe.

Just because I believe that believers are not justified before they believe, this does not mean I am "saying the Head of those members is not justified before God until all His members believe".

Furthermore, brigthfame52 claims that my belief that believers are not justified until they believe is "an attempt to overthrow the blessed significance of Christ's Resurrection, which also subverts His accomplishment by His Death !"

That is an utterly false statement based upon an ideology which is steeped in error.



 
Jul 23, 2018
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Not really ...


That sentence makes no sense as it is a run on sentence, it contains double negative, and it states as fact that which is supposition.

It is not true that believers are justified before they believe.

Just because I believe that believers are not justified before they believe, this does not mean I am "saying the Head of those members is not justified before God until all His members believe".

Furthermore, brigthfame52 claims that my belief that believers are not justified until they believe is "an attempt to overthrow the blessed significance of Christ's Resurrection, which also subverts His accomplishment by His Death !"

That is an utterly false statement based upon an ideology which is steeped in error.
Ok i can see that.

I agree
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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More on Rom 4:25 Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life

The Justification that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ gave witness to and evidence of in Rom 4:25

25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

And that is Justification of Life ! That is the effect that Christ's Death alone produces. It comes through one man's righteous act, Now to deny this is to deny the Gospel of free grace salvation.

And no, ,the all men here does not mean all men without exception, but the all men whom Christ had given to Him by the Father, or the Church of which He was the Head of !
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Jesus gives Life to the World !

Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

The Lord Jesus Christ's coming into the World was by Covenant engagement, the Everlasting Covenant, the results of which would be to give life unto the World, this is not a offer of life, nor is it merely making life available if only we would accept it or no, but it is a communication of Life, and that a Spiritual Life, a Covenant Life as Per Mal 2:5

My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

John Gill says of this verse:

My covenant was with him of life and peace…
Not with Aaron, nor with Phinehas; nor is it to be understood of a covenant, promising temporal life and outward prosperity to either of them; Aaron living a hundred and twenty three years, (Numbers 33:39) and Phinehas, according to some Jewish writers, above three hundred years, which they gather from (Judges 20:28) but of the covenant made with Christ from everlasting, called "a covenant of life", because it was made with Christ the Word of life, who was with the Father from all eternity, and in time was made manifest in the flesh; and was made in behalf of persons ordained to eternal life, and in which that was promised and given to them in him; and in which it was agreed that he should become man, and lay down his life as such, that they might enjoy it: and it is called a "covenant of peace", because the scheme of peace and reconciliation was drawn in it, and agreed unto; Christ was appointed in it to be the Peacemaker; and in consequence of which he was sent to procure peace, and he has made it by the blood of his cross: and this covenant may be said to have been and to be "with him"; because it was made with him from all eternity, as the head and representative of his people, and he had all the blessings and promises of it put into his hands; and it stands fast with him, and will do so for evermore. And I gave them to him;
namely, the blessings of life and peace; eternal life is the gift of God; and not only the promise of it, but that itself, was given to Christ in covenant for his people, and a power to give it to as many as the Father gave to him, (Psalms 21:4) (2 Timothy 1:1) (1 John 5:12) (John 17:2) he gave him also peace to make, put this work of peacemaking into his hand; and he allows it to be made by him, and that it is rightly effected; and from his blood and righteousness peace springs to his people; and they enjoy peace in him and through him, yea, all prosperity and happiness:
Click to expand...​

This Covenant Life of ours was with and in Christ from the beginning Jn 1:4

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

1 Jn 1:1-2

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

Now the basis for all whom this Life belonged to, and of them receiving of it, was His giving His Life in the stead of theirs Jn 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Christ giving His Life by Covenant arrangement, entails that those He died in behalf of, that they receive Life, [a communication or quickening] Life from Him !
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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A Accomplishment Solely of Christ's Death !

2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Death of Christ solely abolished death apart from any subsequent work of the Spirit. He has abolished death for each person He died for. And for this meritorious cause, each person He died for receives Life as a Free Gift from New Birth or Quickening which is a subsequent work of the Spirit because of His meritorious death !

Each Person that Christ died for has been delivered by His Death from Death Spiritual, Death Physical in that if they die it ushers them into the prescience of Him that died for them 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23

And the Second Death or Eternal Death ! Its impossible for anyone Christ died for to remain dead in trespasses and sins, so we read Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

That saved Grace by which He tasted Death fir every man or son Heb 2:9-10
 
Mar 23, 2016
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And no, ,the all men here does not mean all men without exception, but the all men whom Christ had given to Him by the Father, or the Church of which He was the Head of !
Nope ...

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men means all men ... all descendants of Adam.

The efficacy of the righteousness of the One (the Lord Jesus Christ) is sufficient to cover all men ... all who have been born from time of Adam to the present time as well as future generations. There is no limit to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. His righteousness is sufficient ... He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

His righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:21-24), and those who believe are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).



 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It makes us the Righteousness of God in Him !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Whenever we see the word that, hina, it is stating the Divine Purpose, and here it is stating that purpose for which Christ was made sin[By Imputation] for those He died for, it was so they could be made Righteous !

The word made is the greek word ginomai which means:

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made


The Idea here is that of being made a New Creation, A New Man as this Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, this is result of Christ being made sin for those He died, that they would be made a New Creation, to receive a New Being to the Glory of God through Jesus Christ, and so it is written of these Isa 43:7184

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

This statement is based upon Christ's Work here 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Nope ...

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men means all men ... all descendants of Adam.

The efficacy of the righteousness of the One (the Lord Jesus Christ) is sufficient to cover all men ... all who have been born from time of Adam to the present time as well as future generations. There is no limit to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. His righteousness is sufficient ... He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

His righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:21-24), and those who believe are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).
Yes ! And All men in Rom 5:18 for justification of life, means all men Christ was a Surety Head for, His Body the Church.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It makes us the Righteousness of God in Him !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Whenever we see the word that, hina, it is stating the Divine Purpose, and here it is stating that purpose for which Christ was made sin[By Imputation] for those He died for, it was so they could be made Righteous !

The word made is the greek word ginomai which means:

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made


The Idea here is that of being made a New Creation, A New Man as this Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, this is result of Christ being made sin for those He died, that they would be made a New Creation, to receive a New Being to the Glory of God through Jesus Christ, and so it is written of these Isa 43:7184

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

This statement is based upon Christ's Work here 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It makes us the Righteousness of God in Him ! cont

The Reason why those Christ died for must be made a New Creation, is because His Death for them satisfied the Law and Justice of God on behalf of them, which declares them Justified and Righteous before Him, and His Righteousness laid to their Charge demands Life ! As the old proverb states Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness [Christ's Imputed] is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

Thats also why Paul writes Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The word life here is in the genitive case describing what kind of Justification it is, It possesses Life or it brings Life or effects Life, Spiritual Life, Quickening Life !

So the effects of Christ's Death goes beyond declaring us Righteous before God, but it also provides by Quickening, making us experientially Righteous, John Rights 1 Jn 3:7

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Doing Righteousness here is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, everyone doing Righteousness had been made Righteous 2 Cor 5:21.

Jesus Christ was made sin for us [ The Church ], so that [stating purpose] we may become experientially Righteous. Paul teaches that also here Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made[experientially] righteous.

Just like all who were in Adam in his disobedience were made [experientially] sinners !!

This Truth is what all the antichrist followers deny and do not understand, but this is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Christ's death or being made sin was not to make salvation and conversion merely possible, but that it would effect conversion, experiential salvation and to begin a Life that is dedicated for the Honor of God, to Worship Him in Spirit and Truth, that kind of worshiper did the Father desire Jn 4:23

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

And this end is accomplished by 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Nope ...

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men means all men ... all descendants of Adam.

The efficacy of the righteousness of the One (the Lord Jesus Christ) is sufficient to cover all men ... all who have been born from time of Adam to the present time as well as future generations. There is no limit to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. His righteousness is sufficient ... He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

His righteousness is imputed to those who believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead (Rom 4:21-24), and those who believe are justified by faith (Rom 5:1).
Yes, Bright, has nothing to offer to you.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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The inevitable results of Christ's Obedience !

Just as by ones man's disobedience, those that he federally represented, were made actually disobedient See Paul's statement to the Elect here Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

So likewise, by one mans obedience, those He federally represented shall be made actually obedient !

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 186
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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1 Pet 2:24

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The End of Christ's Death, the bearing of Our Sins on the Tree, not for everyone but for His Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2, the end design was that we may Live unto Righteousness or to Live by Faith, now if this end was not obtained in this life, for everyone Christ bared their sins, His death was a failure to the Purpose of God, but if it was not a failure, which it was not, then all who die in their sins and meet with eternal damnation Matt 25:41, He did not bear their sins on in His Body on the Tree
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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We know that Christ's Death is efficacious for all whom He died by this Blessed Passage of the Covenant Heb 9:15-17

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

In one of the ways this Covenental Death takes effect, is because the Mediator of it, the Lord Jesus Christ Vs 15 has risen from the dead to be the executor of it [apply its benefits], for He being exalted to be a Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31, He therefore dispenses with the benefits of His Covenantal Death, which includes giving Repentance and Remission of sins to His Elect [Israel of God] and in this way His death takes effect. These blessed effects were foretold here in this prophecy Isa 53:10-11

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.188

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

By it stating " The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand", this means for all whom He died, all the Father desired to be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4, this prospered in His Hand and was accomplished !
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Christ is a Saviour to Israel, His Church !

Christ in being a Saviour, does not make Salvation possible, for that is only to be a possible Saviour, which is no Saviour at all, but He is Actually a Saviour,no not to everyone in the World, for that was never God's Promise, but to Israel, a elect people out of every tribe and kindred.

The promise is that Israel shall be saved Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here means God's Elect from amongst jew and gentile.

Paul preached that according to PROMISE God hath raised up a Saviour Unto Israel Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Folks, Jesus came only to save a elect people name Israel Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people[Israel] from their sins.

Now notice what Paul preached in Acts 13:23, that these same words did apply to some gentiles, we know from vs 42

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The words of Acts 13:23, simply because they too partake of the Promises of the Gospel to Israel Eph 3:6

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

What are the promises in Christ by the Gospel ? Well its promises like Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Yes, that was a mystery back then, that the gentiles would be fellowheirs of that Gospel promise to Israel.189

So Christ as the risen Saviour gives Repentance to Israel His Elect Acts 5:31 and Acts 11:18

Those gentiles of Acts 11:18 are fellowheirs with the Israel of Acts 5:31.

So all for whom Christ died, His Israel, are given Repentance unto life ! Thats why He is a Saviour unto them !