Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

You still denying Justification by the Grace of God alone apart from a persons faith.

nope ... I just read Scripture ... I don't add to it ... I don't take away from it ... I don't manipulate it to align with a construct unsupported by the text.

That by default tells me you condition Justification on what a person does over and above what God in Christ did.

nope ... I just follow the same truth the Lord Jesus Christ ... it is written (see Matt 4)

you have a problem with that??? take it up with the Author of Scripture

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus

Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Those would be His People whom He came to save as Per Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus and His People are the same here in Matt 1:21 and those in Rom 3:26

The Lord Jesus Christ has paid the whole of the sin debt, both in righteous living, and the sin penalty for the broken law, for all whom He died, and in this He has fulfilled for them all of God's Righteous requirements due to God from man !

And this done, Christ's Faithfulness to God's Law on their behalf, God is Just [Having all His Justice satisfied for them] in Justifying those believing.

That is, their believing is evidence, that God hath concluded them without Fault before His Perfect Law and Justice based on Christ's Faithfulness or Obedience. Rom 5:19

19 For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... I just read Scripture ... I don't add to it ... I don't take away from it ... I don't manipulate it to align with a construct unsupported by the text.





nope ... I just follow the same truth the Lord Jesus Christ ... it is written (see Matt 4)

you have a problem with that??? take it up with the Author of Scripture

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Read post 577 again, I explained some things, did you understand ?

 

[brightfame52]

He that believes is not condemned, but He that does not believe is condemned already.

Unbelievers are under the wrath of God until they believe. It’s called “passing from death to life”.

Not all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, not those who Christ died for, they are Justified while being enemies and unbelievers by Christs Blood and righteousness imputed !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Read the verse in the context in which it sits:

Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Why don't you just trust God? ... believe what God tells you in Romans 3:21-26???

The Lord Jesus Christ has paid the whole of the sin debt, both in righteous living, and the sin penalty for the broken law, for all whom He died

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When John declared that Jesus was the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world, Jesus did not correct John by telling John "no, John, I take away the sin of the elect".

That is, their believing is evidence, that God hath concluded them without Fault

nope ... righteousness is not imputed before a person believes:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".




.

 

[brightfame52]

Justified in the name of the Lord !

1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

That those Jesus died for were Justified by His Death alone, meaning their Justification before God, its taught in this very verse, in that by His Blood alone they were Justified Rom 5:9 in the name of the Lord !

When something is done in the name of the Lord, He receives all the Glory and Credit for doing it. This Justification had nothing to do with what the one being Justified did. No, not their believing or repenting, but it had only to do with what Jesus Christ accomplished on their behalf, in His Name, His Person and Work,and therefore His Resurrection does testify that all for whom He bare their sins, that in Him, in His Name [Person] they are declared Justified Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and[He] was raised again for our justification

Hence Justified in the Name of the Lord ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verse in the context in which it sits:

Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Why don't you just trust God? ... believe what God tells you in Romans 3:21-26???





John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When John declared that Jesus was the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world, Jesus did not correct John by telling John "no, John, I take away the sin of the elect".





nope ... righteousness is not imputed before a person believes:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".




.

So you see believing does come into the equation in Justification, and I explained why, but you didnt pay attention.

 

[oyster67]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

We all started out as the ungodly. The Lord died so that WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME.

We all have a choice to make. Jesus' atonement is what makes this choice possible.

Isaiah
55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for [that which is] not bread? and your labour for [that which] satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye [that which is] good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation [that] thou knowest not, and nations [that] knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So you see believing does come into the equation in Justification ...

you said ...

That is, their believing is evidence, that God hath concluded them without Fault

iow ... according to you, God concludes they are "without Fault" before they believe. Scripture tells us when righteousness is imputed.

righteousness is not imputed before a person believes:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

... I explained why, but you didnt pay attention.

Scripture explains very succinctly ... you didn't ... don't ... and won't pay attention until you let go of your dogma and read Scripture through the eyes of faith.


.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and[He] was raised again for our justification

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".


.

 

[brightfame52]

We all started out as the ungodly. The Lord died so that WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME.

We all have a choice to make. Jesus' atonement is what makes this choice possible.

Isaiah
55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for [that which is] not bread? and your labour for [that which] satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye [that which is] good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation [that] thou knowest not, and nations [that] knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

You still dont get it.

 

[brightfame52]

you said ...



iow ... according to you, God concludes they are "without Fault" before they believe. Scripture tells us when righteousness is imputed.

righteousness is not imputed before a person believes:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".





Scripture explains very succinctly ... you didn't ... don't ... and won't pay attention until you let go of your dogma and read Scripture through the eyes of faith.


.

You still dont seem to get it. The Justified will be given faith to believe !

 

[brightfame52]

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".


.

When Christ was raised it was because those whom sins He died for were Justified. They will be given faith !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You still dont seem to get it.

I understand what you are saying ... that I disagree does not mean I "dont seem to get it".

The Justified will be given faith to believe !

All mankind has faith. The issue is not whether someone has faith. The issue is in Whom do we place our faith.

Some folks believe the lies of the adversary ... they place their faith in what is not true. And they will suffer the consequence.


.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

When Christ was raised it was because those whom sins He died for were Justified.

nope ... He was raised because it was impossible for death to hold Him ...

Act 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he [the Lord Jesus Christ] should be holden of it [death].


.

 

[brightfame52]

A Declarative Justification !

Those in modern day false religion do deny that there is a Justification of those Christ died for apart from their God given Faith, of which the scripture does teach. One of the teachings of scripture to a declarative Justification before God is that of non imputation of sin. If God does not charge a people with sin, then He by that Justifieth them Per Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The reason for the inquiry who shall lay any charges against God's Elect is to bring notice to the fact that God has not ! Why ? Because of non imputation of sin. Lets look at Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This applies to everyone Christ died for, because He was imputed with their sins, and so they are not ! Because of that, they acquitted from all sin, by non imputation.

This blessed man or men are Justified / Blessed because God will not count their sins against them in a way of condemnation now or in the Judgment. This also applies to a whole World of Blessed men and women 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John Gill comment:

not imputing their trespasses. This was what he resolved upon from all eternity, that inasmuch as Christ was become the surety and substitute of his people, he would not impute their sins to them, or look for satisfaction for them from them; but would reckon and place them to the account of their surety, and expect satisfaction from him; and accordingly he did, and accordingly he had it. And this will, not to impute sin to his people, or not to punish for it, which existed in God from everlasting, is no other than a justification of them; for to whom the Lord does not impute sin, he imputes righteousness, and such are properly justified.​

And so the World of 2 Cor 5:19 because of non imputation of sin is Justified by God Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Note: Those Persons reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while they are being enemies or unbelievers, God does not count their sins against them while they are being enemies 2 Cor 5:19 ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

I understand what you are saying ... that I disagree does not mean I "dont seem to get it".





All mankind has faith. The issue is not whether someone has faith. The issue is in Whom do we place our faith.

Some folks believe the lies of the adversary ... they place their faith in what is not true. And they will suffer the consequence.


.

You still dont get it.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... He was raised because it was impossible for death to hold Him ...

Act 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he [the Lord Jesus Christ] should be holden of it [death].


.

Again When Christ was raised it was because those whom sins He died for were Justified. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

 

[brightfame52]

A Declarative Justification !2


Secondly, there is a Declarative Justification before God, apart from one's God given Faith, not only by Non Imputation of their sins, but also by Imputation of their sins to Christ Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word laid means to cause to fall upon Him,to meet upon Him or to strike the mark !

Thats why the World Christ died for did not have its sins imputed to it 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 because their sins, trespasses, offense's, iniquities were caused to meet on Christ.

God the Father determined before the foundation of the World, not to charge, impute their sins and condemnation to them, but to lay them on Christ instead.

So the reason is once again answered as to why God did not charge His Elect Rom 8:33 and look at Rom 8:34a

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Because it was for Christ to die for their sins instead. He died for them because He was charged with them instead of them, so He bare their sins Isa 53:11-12

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in Vs 11 is the hebrew word cabal

to bear, bear a load, drag oneself along

a) (Qal) to bear (a load)

b) (Pual) laden (participle)

c) (Hithpael) to make oneself a burden, drag oneself along

He received the penalties that the ones He died for deserved !

But notice the results of baring their sins, He made them to be accounted Righteous or He Justified many, and this Justification is based solely upon His baring their sins that were imputed to Him !

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

So God declares Righteous or Justified those whom sins were imputed to Christ for Him to bare in their stead !

 

[brightfame52]

A Declarative Justification !2


Secondly, there is a Declarative Justification before God, apart from one's God given Faith, not only by Non Imputation of their sins, but also by Imputation of their sins to Christ Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word laid means to cause to fall upon Him,to meet upon Him or to strike the mark !

Thats why the World Christ died for did not have its sins imputed to it 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 because their sins, trespasses, offense's, iniquities were caused to meet on Christ.

God the Father determined before the foundation of the World, not to charge, impute their sins and condemnation to them, but to lay them on Christ instead.

So the reason is once again answered as to why God did not charge His Elect Rom 8:33 and look at Rom 8:34a

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.6

Because it was for Christ to die for their sins instead. He died for them because He was charged with them instead of them, so He bare their sins Isa 53:11-12

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in Vs 11 is the hebrew word cabal

to bear, bear a load, drag oneself along

a) (Qal) to bear (a load)

b) (Pual) laden (participle)

c) (Hithpael) to make oneself a burden, drag oneself along

He received the penalties that the ones He died for deserved !

But notice the results of baring their sins, He made them to be accounted Righteous or He Justified many, and this Justification is based solely upon His baring their sins that were imputed to Him !

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

So God declares Righteous or Justified those whom sins were imputed to Christ for Him to bare in their stead !