Mary as the mother of God?

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S

Scotth1960

Guest
really?... is there a proof for this?
If Jesus Christ is not God the Son, then Mary is not the Mother of God. If Mary is not the Mother of God, then Jesus Christ is not God the Son.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
I worship God. I do not worship Mary. I hope you are not trying to get me to do that.
We're not trying to get you to worship anybody but God, we don't even worship anybody but God. What we are trying to do is to defend Mary's rightful title of Mother of God.
 
W

Warrior44

Guest
Like I said, the other does not matter. Even if the soul was in before birth that soul or spirit was still eternal and had no mother. And I do not wish to discuss it, as it has no bearin gon this conversation

as for this question, Jesus (man) had begining. Jesus (God ) did not have a begining, he always was. He, as scripture says, Emptied his spirit, and took on the form of a man. (became man) Mary did not give birth, or create this spirit form of Jesus. it always was.

Again, why can't you see this?
maybe, maybe not. But you have to admit, she's just got more bragging rights.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
maybe, maybe not. But you have to admit, she's just got more bragging rights.
If anyones got bragging rights, it would be Adam and Eve. I think Mary should be thanking them for making her necesary. ;)


(unless we take a Calvinist view that it was all predestined)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
maybe, maybe not. But you have to admit, she's just got more bragging rights.
What good are bragging rights when there is no one righteous. not one, for all (including mary) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

If Christ failed. And did not die on the cross because he sinned, Mary would be just as lost as the rest of us. She has just as much to praise her son as we do. for without him, we are all doomed.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If anyones got bragging rights, it would be Adam and Eve. I think Mary should be thanking them for making her necesary. ;)


(unless we take a Calvinist view that it was all predestined)
God forbid!!..lol
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
We're not trying to get you to worship anybody but God, we don't even worship anybody but God. What we are trying to do is to defend Mary's rightful title of Mother of God.

I said this else where but:

Isnt Mary Considered to be the Spouse of the Holy spirit?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
I said this else where but:

Isnt Mary Considered to be the Spouse of the Holy spirit?

As well as..
1."The mother of the members of Christ" (par. 963).
2.Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, & Mediatrix
(CCC 969)
3."Queen over all things" (par. 966).
4.Spouse of the Holy Spirit (www.vatican.va)
5.Mary Queen of the Apostles
6.Queen of angels
7.Queen of prophets
8.Holy Mother of God
9.Mother of the Church
10.Mother of divine grace
1.Mirror of justice
2.Seat of wisdom
3.Mystical rose
4.Tower of David
5.Morning star
6.Gate of heaven
7.Queen of peace
8.Queen of the universe
9.Cause of our joy
10.Glory of Israel
11.Ark of the covenant
12.Refuge of sinners
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Equal in value, yes. Equal in honor, no.
No one gets honor but Christ. If not for Christ. mary would be doomed for eternity with the rest of us. No man is to have honor. Nor should any woman. Mary is blessed among all women for what she went through and endured. And what she had the pleasure of doing. But she is not to be honored. Christ is! Honoring anyone is to hold them up. We are not to hold anyone up but Christ.

Mary is a sinner saved by Grace, a future bride of Christ. Just like I am.
 
D

Deadflesh

Guest
1."The mother of the members of Christ" (par. 963).
2.Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, & Mediatrix
(CCC 969)
3."Queen over all things" (par. 966).
4.Spouse of the Holy Spirit (www.vatican.va)
5.Mary Queen of the Apostles
6.Queen of angels
7.Queen of prophets
8.Holy Mother of God
9.Mother of the Church
10.Mother of divine grace
1.Mirror of justice
2.Seat of wisdom
3.Mystical rose
4.Tower of David
5.Morning star
6.Gate of heaven
7.Queen of peace
8.Queen of the universe
9.Cause of our joy
10.Glory of Israel
11.Ark of the covenant
12.Refuge of sinners
Wow Gate of heaven, refuge of Sinners? sigh...ummm...ok i knew alot of these but not all...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wow Gate of heaven, refuge of Sinners? sigh...ummm...ok i knew alot of these but not all...
and people wonder why many think it is a pagan belief which has pagan origins ;)
 
S

systemdown101

Guest
Some of these titles are just mind-blowing, Jimmydiggs. They can't be real.

3."Queen over all things"
You've got to be kidding.

4.Spouse of the Holy Spirit
That's ... Mary is MARRIED to the Holy Spirit?

6.Queen of angels
How did she earn this job?

7.Queen of prophets
Okay, now that's just taking it too far. I can't imagine any of the prophets walking around calling themselves the king of the prophets somewhat like the apostles wondering which of them would be the greatest.

8.Queen of the universe
WHAT?!?

11.Ark of the covenant
Now this one is just silly. Am I to believe Indiana Jones rescued her in the first movie?
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
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i know she is referred as Theotokos, or "Mother of God"... there was a debate in the early church whether she was to be called either "Theotokos" or "Christotokos"
 
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Deadflesh

Guest
and people wonder why many think it is a pagan belief which has pagan origins

It does...and ALLOT of it is taken from Kabballah(and the talmud) (which is not "Jewish" in orgin but babylonian) Hence why Zone is al Ape over Zionism, and Jerusalem.

Im not to sure if the WHORE of Babylon is Jerusalem though. Its NOT the Catholic church, as much as people think (so smile guys :) its not you!! well not directly YAY!!...)


But there are MANY MANY MANY "christian groups" who do not have any ties with Catholicism any more, nor Judaism.and STILL are harlots when it comes to lovign Jesus with ALL of there heart soul mind and strength.


so THEY ARe still considered Babylon as well.


its a spiritual condition...NOT a physical carnal place.


Like the Whole MAry beig the ARK of the COVENANT, or MAry sittign on the MERCY seat.
http://i52.tinypic.com/28wcgy.jpg <---Creepy


It STEMS from Kabbalah and The Shekinah GLory beign "the feminine presence of GOD" Except the Shekinah is NOT at all in the Tanakh(any where).

The Shekinah Glory, accordign to Kabballah, (and theosophy.newage witchcraft and all that )... is also the Ruach ha kodesh. So the Glory of GOD, and the SPIRIT of GOD is the FEMININE presence of GOD...Becasue "GOD is andgrgenous"...SO...do you see how MARY fits into this whole thing? MARY takign the palce of God. Mary startign to look MORE masculine. Jesus looking MORE feminine.

Gospel of Thomas.(when the male is the female, and the female the male..then you wil be in the kingdom of heaven...thats paraphrased...look it up...i think its verse 22...somehwere near the bottom)



Anyway, SO it ALL stems from Pagan Customs that come from Dark magic that the Jewish SAGES did through Kabballah.

So THAT is Why ZONE is all ontop of all of that.

I differ with her on ONE thing, , from what I beleive the LORD has been mercyful enough to open my eyes to...I believe BABYLON is the GREATER visible Church. the CHURCH that man built. The house NOT BUILT on ROCK but on SAND.

And When the FLOOD comes(same flood that coems out of the dragons mouth..it is a FLOOD of LIES) the House on sand will be taken away by it. but the house on ROCK (Obey Jesus) will stand.

HARLOT Babylon is one who thinks she is NOT a Widow, but a queen.(except she is not a queen...becasue she has no husband who is KING...JESUS)this is NOT talking about the catholic church but about any Church who does NOT obey the WORDS of JESUS, with out tradition, reformation and mans opinon thrown in(which is ALLOT harder to recognise...but GOD calls us out, and then he calls IT out of US...that part takes longer)...ok im rambling...


ALL religion is evil. All of it. But a Relationship with Jesus Christ, whcih is obeyig him, being born again, comming OUT of the WORLD, and being led by the HOLY SPIRIT into KNOWING GOD. is Not religion.

ANY sect that give credit to ANYONE but Jesus(in any fashion, including credit to themselves) is deceived and deceiving others.

Not just ONE. it is not JUST the Catholic Church. If you call the Catholic Church the Whore of babylon because its PAGAN, then i suggest you do NOT celibrate Christams, or EASTER, or Fouth of July....they are ALL pagan. No way around it.

Cant call the kettle black if you are a Pot.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It does...and ALLOT of it is taken from Kabballah(and the talmud) (which is not "Jewish" in orgin but babylonian) Hence why Zone is al Ape over Zionism, and Jerusalem.

Im not to sure if the WHORE of Babylon is Jerusalem though. Its NOT the Catholic church, as much as people think (so smile guys :) its not you!! well not directly YAY!!...)


But there are MANY MANY MANY "christian groups" who do not have any ties with Catholicism any more, nor Judaism.and STILL are harlots when it comes to lovign Jesus with ALL of there heart soul mind and strength.


so THEY ARe still considered Babylon as well.


its a spiritual condition...NOT a physical carnal place.


Like the Whole MAry beig the ARK of the COVENANT, or MAry sittign on the MERCY seat.
http://i52.tinypic.com/28wcgy.jpg <---Creepy


It STEMS from Kabbalah and The Shekinah GLory beign "the feminine presence of GOD" Except the Shekinah is NOT at all in the Tanakh(any where).

The Shekinah Glory, accordign to Kabballah, (and theosophy.newage witchcraft and all that )... is also the Ruach ha kodesh. So the Glory of GOD, and the SPIRIT of GOD is the FEMININE presence of GOD...Becasue "GOD is andgrgenous"...SO...do you see how MARY fits into this whole thing? MARY takign the palce of God. Mary startign to look MORE masculine. Jesus looking MORE feminine.

Gospel of Thomas.(when the male is the female, and the female the male..then you wil be in the kingdom of heaven...thats paraphrased...look it up...i think its verse 22...somehwere near the bottom)



Anyway, SO it ALL stems from Pagan Customs that come from Dark magic that the Jewish SAGES did through Kabballah.

So THAT is Why ZONE is all ontop of all of that.

I differ with her on ONE thing, , from what I beleive the LORD has been mercyful enough to open my eyes to...I believe BABYLON is the GREATER visible Church. the CHURCH that man built. The house NOT BUILT on ROCK but on SAND.

And When the FLOOD comes(same flood that coems out of the dragons mouth..it is a FLOOD of LIES) the House on sand will be taken away by it. but the house on ROCK (Obey Jesus) will stand.

HARLOT Babylon is one who thinks she is NOT a Widow, but a queen.(except she is not a queen...becasue she has no husband who is KING...JESUS)this is NOT talking about the catholic church but about any Church who does NOT obey the WORDS of JESUS, with out tradition, reformation and mans opinon thrown in(which is ALLOT harder to recognise...but GOD calls us out, and then he calls IT out of US...that part takes longer)...ok im rambling...


ALL religion is evil. All of it. But a Relationship with Jesus Christ, whcih is obeyig him, being born again, comming OUT of the WORLD, and being led by the HOLY SPIRIT into KNOWING GOD. is Not religion.

ANY sect that give credit to ANYONE but Jesus(in any fashion, including credit to themselves) is deceived and deceiving others.

Not just ONE. it is not JUST the Catholic Church. If you call the Catholic Church the Whore of babylon because its PAGAN, then i suggest you do NOT celibrate Christams, or EASTER, or Fouth of July....they are ALL pagan. No way around it.

Cant call the kettle black if you are a Pot.
Hey my friend. I have not looked at what Zone posted about this Jerusalem and Jewish Babylon thing yet. I guess I will have to.

As far as mary being called all these things, and it coming from Jewish Talmud or whatever. I would like to see more proof. Jews do not consider Jesus God or messiah. So they would not ocnsider mary anything but an adulteress and fornicator who gave birth to a bastard child (Jesus) out of wedlock. So why they would name her these things do not make sense.

As far as Jews being Babylon in Jerusalem. i also must disagree (although I still love zone) for a few reasons. I will name just a few so as to not be lengthy.

1. Jews have no influence on world leaders (kings) with a worldwide scope (although they might influence a few. like the US) Babylon is said to have massive influence on kings.

2. Jews are not rich and influential in the world market. babylon is.

3. when the jews or jerusalem are destroyed. There will not be a sadness on earth, in fact, I think there would be a great joy on earth if this happened. we are told when Babylon is destroyed. the earth will mourn.

again, these are just a few. there are many more. Jewish tradition might dabble in pagan stuff (I would have to study this more) but she would not be considered babylon. At least not today. Her power and influence and love would have to multiply greatly on the earth for her to be full fledged Babylon. I just do not see this happeneing. Especially with all the hate the world has shown toward the jews. .