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S
The Scripture says, "All generations shall call me (Mary) blessed". If you are one of those of a generation that does not call Mary blessed, you disagree with Scripture, and therefore disagree with Christ the Son of God. In Scripture, Mary prophesied that the followers of Christ will call her blessed. It does not take away from blessing Jesus Christ to bless the holy Mother of Jesus Christ.
S
Katy, I will direct you to the response of Saint Jerome to the arguments that Helvidius made (which you are also making)
The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
And Scripture points to her being the Mother of God. So I guess Scripture wins! 
her name should not be "Theotokos", but "Christotokos"
in fact... Theotokos does NOT mean "Mother of God"... the original Greek translation is simply "God-bearer", and it was ONLY used as a title for Mary by 4th century writers.
in the post-Nicene Latin speaking church, Theotokos was rendered Dei Genitrix, which means "Mother of God"
it was Cyril of Alexandria that gave her this name during the First Council of Ephesus in 431. Before Cyril, Mary was nothing more than another person.
after reading all accounts concerning Mary from Papias, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, Methodius, and Alexander of Alexandria (...because i know you Catholics looove your church leaders and your saints...), they all mention Mary, the mother of Jesus, AS A SIMPLE WOMAN... not perfect, not born sinless, or any other Roman Catholic dogmatic belief instated by the Roman Church. ALL of them expressed that she was simply the mother of Jesus.
later, though, in the third century, Tertullian, Origin, and Methodius were defending the virgin birth and Jesus having a natural mother, because in the 3rd Centuiry, Marcion, among others, were claiming that Mary was not the natural mother of Christ. Therefore, these above mentioned wrote defenses for Mary in support of her being Jesus's natural mother, but NEVER ONCE gave her special attention as modern Roman Catholics do today.
Jerome is post-Nicene (347 AD-420 AD)
Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Papias are ante-Nicene (105 AD, 120 AD, 180 AD)
Origin, Tertullian, and Methodius are ante-Nicene (207 AD, 210 AD, 245 AD, 290 AD)
Irenaeus had oral tradition passed on from him by Polycarp, who in turn had his teaching orally passed by the Apostle John, who was orally taught by Jesus Christ...
if Mary was indeed this person as the Roman Catholic Church makes her out to be, Irenaeus would most certainly would of reflected these beliefs about Mary in his writings.
HE NEVER DOES.
Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Papias are ante-Nicene (105 AD, 120 AD, 180 AD)
Origin, Tertullian, and Methodius are ante-Nicene (207 AD, 210 AD, 245 AD, 290 AD)
Irenaeus had oral tradition passed on from him by Polycarp, who in turn had his teaching orally passed by the Apostle John, who was orally taught by Jesus Christ...
if Mary was indeed this person as the Roman Catholic Church makes her out to be, Irenaeus would most certainly would of reflected these beliefs about Mary in his writings.
HE NEVER DOES.
S
There is one trap you fall into that others so often make, you take the Council of Ephesus as the first date Theotokos was used (which in effect means the same thing as what we use albeit a bit more precise). Theotokos was used as a title before this as is evidenced by the fact that it is one of the many things Nestorius railed against, and his teachings ultimately caused the Council to be called. Where both his teachings and Christotokos were condemned.
S
That wasn't my point. The title had to be in use before the 4th century, whether the ante-nicene Fathers decided to use it or not is irrelevant. Otherwise Nestorius insisting on Christotokos would have been a moot point, and the fact that Nestorius was repudiated on the basis that Mary had always been ascribed the title Theotokos is very telling as well.
Additionally Irenaeus writes this:
"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189])
Which if you remember right pretty much mirrors the meaning of Theotokos
Also:
Peter of Alexandira, "They came to the church of the most blessed Mother of God, and ever-virgin Mary, which, as we began to say, he had constructed in the western quarter, in a suburb, for a cemetery of the martyrs" (The Genuine Acts of Peter of Alexandia [A.D. 305])
"We acknowledge the resurrection of the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the firstling; he bore a body not in appearance but in truth derived from Mary the Mother of God" (Letter to all non-Egyptian Bishops 12 [A.D. 324])
Additionally Irenaeus writes this:
"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189])
Which if you remember right pretty much mirrors the meaning of Theotokos
Also:
Peter of Alexandira, "They came to the church of the most blessed Mother of God, and ever-virgin Mary, which, as we began to say, he had constructed in the western quarter, in a suburb, for a cemetery of the martyrs" (The Genuine Acts of Peter of Alexandia [A.D. 305])
"We acknowledge the resurrection of the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the firstling; he bore a body not in appearance but in truth derived from Mary the Mother of God" (Letter to all non-Egyptian Bishops 12 [A.D. 324])
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whether they decided it was irrelevant or not is not the point.
it mirrors it, but it is NOT the exact title... you're pushing for something that isn't there.
and my previous post still stands Biblically and historically, and you still use cavalier dismissal... Mary did birth God the Son, and yet nothing about her was anything that either Cyril or any modern day pope make her out to be as modern day Roman Catholicism teaches
and from your last edit, my point STILL STANDS.
you just quoted 4th century writers.
early Christians never prayed to Mary, or saw her as sinless, as you do.
it mirrors it, but it is NOT the exact title... you're pushing for something that isn't there.
and my previous post still stands Biblically and historically, and you still use cavalier dismissal... Mary did birth God the Son, and yet nothing about her was anything that either Cyril or any modern day pope make her out to be as modern day Roman Catholicism teaches
and from your last edit, my point STILL STANDS.
you just quoted 4th century writers.
early Christians never prayed to Mary, or saw her as sinless, as you do.
E
They were wrong anyway. Mary was never told she would bear God. The Angel told mary she was with Child of the Holy Spirit. And she will have a son, And shall call his name Immanuel. No mention of her bearing God. Just a man, who's name is Immanuel, and will represent God on earth to mankind. So whoever said she was told she was going to "bare God" was wrong to begin with and should not be believed. Scripture trumps men.
Not to mention how many times was mary rebuked because she did not know what jesus was supposed to do? If mary though Jesus was God she would never have questioned his authority. or what he was doing.
Not to mention how many times was mary rebuked because she did not know what jesus was supposed to do? If mary though Jesus was God she would never have questioned his authority. or what he was doing.
K
1. Nobody defined "bless" or "blessed" as what Mary was told and said.
2. We're supposed to love the Lord with our "all". THAT includes the Holy Spirit. He, and He, alone, is to be given FULL CREDIT for the conception and birth of Jesus.
Quit looking at the pretty package and concentrate on the Gift inside.
2. We're supposed to love the Lord with our "all". THAT includes the Holy Spirit. He, and He, alone, is to be given FULL CREDIT for the conception and birth of Jesus.
Quit looking at the pretty package and concentrate on the Gift inside.