God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!

[Moses_Young]

If I may make a suggestion for long I shared your frustration. Galatians 5:16 says as we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The Spirit cannot lead us into sin.

We are also called to delight ourselves in the Lord. Strong desires are not so much overcome by a lessening the desire, but as it is replaced by a stronger desire. Here the 23rd Psalm is most instructive. The Lord is meant to be an all satisfying resource to the believer. The Psalm enumerates the great and total provision that God makes for His people. Our dissatisfaction in life comes not from lack of provision, but our attempts to find satisfaction in things that cannot satisfy.

As I'm writing this addressing your post, I have no idea where you are at spiritually and am not attempting to judge you in any way...merely offering iron in case you could use some sharpening.

Thank you for your suggestion, and yes, I certainly find this helpful. It was more the line of thought that once physical circumcision is done, it's over with, and the problem doesn't come back. But for some reason, although the sinful nature is cut off when our hearts are circumcised, the sin still can be a battle. But where then is it coming from?

A person whose heart has been regenerated will be Transformed, sometimes quickly (as did Saul/Paul) and some more slowly, such as Peter. That said, a Circumcised heart is no longer controlled by Satan, but by the Spirit of God (IF His Spirit is within).

So do you believe that circumcision of the heart is a process, or an act? To me it is a one-time act of God, but sanctification (as demonstrated more slowly in Peter) is something separate, and a process. In other words, just because sanctification hadn't been completed in Peter didn't mean his heart was uncircumcised.

I guess my thinking is that our sinful nature has already been circumcised, so it can be frustrating that there is still the desire to sin, and the question is where this is coming from.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you for your suggestion, and yes, I certainly find this helpful. It was more the line of thought that once physical circumcision is done, it's over with, and the problem doesn't come back. But for some reason, although the sinful nature is cut off when our hearts are circumcised, the sin still can be a battle. But where then is it coming from?

So do you believe that circumcision of the heart is a process, or an act? To me it is a one-time act of God, but sanctification (as demonstrated more slowly in Peter) is something separate, and a process. In other words, just because sanctification hadn't been completed in Peter didn't mean his heart was uncircumcised.

I guess my thinking is that our sinful nature has already been circumcised, so it can be frustrating that there is still the desire to sin, and the question is where this is coming from.

It comes from the sin that dwells in us. I'm sorry I don't have time to look up the verse. It is actually a mercy of God, in one regard, to do it this way because it causes us to have to constantly seek God's help.

 

[Moses_Young]

It comes from the sin that dwells in us. I'm sorry I don't have time to look up the verse. It is actually a mercy of God, in one regard, to do it this way because it causes us to have to constantly seek God's help.

I agree. It's more when I think of something as dead or cut off, it doesn't keep coming back or causing more trouble. Maybe dying or in the process of being cut off would be more understandable?

Then I wonder if we've got the metaphor wrong, and it's about the consequence of the sinful nature being dealt with, rather than separating of the sinful nature from the flesh being complete?

 

[Mem]

I agree. It's more when I think of something as dead or cut off, it doesn't keep coming back or causing more trouble. Maybe dying or in the process of being cut off would be more understandable?

Then I wonder if we've got the metaphor wrong, and it's about the consequence of the sinful nature being dealt with, rather than separating of the sinful nature from the flesh being complete?

I thought it was about becoming more sensitive to pricks but, no pun intended anywhere there.

 

[Cameron143]

I agree. It's more when I think of something as dead or cut off, it doesn't keep coming back or causing more trouble. Maybe dying or in the process of being cut off would be more understandable?

Then I wonder if we've got the metaphor wrong, and it's about the consequence of the sinful nature being dealt with, rather than separating of the sinful nature from the flesh being complete?

It's God that does the pruning...John 15. We are to abide.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

So do you believe that circumcision of the heart is a process, or an act? To me it is a one-time act of God, but sanctification (as demonstrated more slowly in Peter) is something separate, and a process. In other words, just because sanctification hadn't been completed in Peter didn't mean his heart was uncircumcised.

In my human assessment of the Gospel and what it actually is, I would say that your views are in alignment with the Gospel, the Story of God.

I guess my thinking is that our sinful nature has already been circumcised, so it can be frustrating that there is still the desire to sin, and the question is where this is coming from.

I hear you, and I could literally offer you fifty pages of explanation . . . which is also frustrating (to me) that I cannot do so. But to sum this concept up, in the whole of my Transformed mind, I find the following words of Paul to contain extreme relief:

Romans 4:15 NLT - "For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)"

Yes, the Laws of Moses applied to those to who it was given, but those Laws were also given so that the entire world would understand their sin and have no excuses. But those written Laws have been replaced by the Spiritual Laws of Life (Rom 8:2), and these Laws are Effectual . . . they cause Transformation. So, if we do not relate to Romans 12:2, then it is likely that our hearts have, in fact, [not] been Circumcised by Christ. The best way to know, for sure, if we have received the Circumcision of Christ is to look at our patterns of sin. Do they remain? Or, do we identify with the Effectual Spirit who Indwells us . . . if He Indwells us at all?

2 Corinthians 3:18 NLT - "So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord--who is the Spirit--makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image."

(That Veil to be removed, by the way, is the Sinful Nature. Unbelievable.)

At some point, a "christian" must acknowledge whether or not they are actually changing beyond their own ability and control. I can testify that in the first 50 years of my "christian" life, I was not reflecting the Glory of God "more and more," but instead, I became worse and worse. It did not matter that I was active in my church, participating in the worship team without missing a single opportunity to perform (wow, I was terribly self-centered) . . . I was absolutely corrupt and should not have been allowed to even set foot in any church.

I recommend that all investigate Biblical passages that help to identify if we are True Children of God, or if we are merely fooling others . . . and ourselves.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

By the way, if sin "dwells within us," then that sin is within Christ. And if that sin is in Christ, it is also in the Father. This is a most dangerous notion to ponder.

Colossians 2:9-10 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority."

We are to be "head over every ruler and authority" because we are "in" Christ.

John 17:21 NLT - "I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one--as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me."

If a person is indwelt by sin, their Spiritual Father is Satan.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8:9 NLT - "But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of
God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

Ezekiel 18:4 plus 32