Is Jesus Christ a God ?

[R3V07UTI0N]

And that is the heresy known as "modalism" and it is biblically unsound.





Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

We don't need a scripture showing this being done since this comes from the mouth of Jesus. Miullions upon millions literally have been baptised this exact way. Baptising in the name of JEsus alone is no contradiction because the name is "God's saviour" and the Holy Spirit is always present with them, and there you have all three even in one name.

So you did not pass my challenge. No one in the bible was baptized in the titles of God.

And you say "all three even in one name" how can you have three different but yet the same name? Is it not logic that there is only one? And I also just want to point out you wrote "God's saviour" but God has no saviour, God is the Saviour.

Jesus Himself taught that He was the Father. "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."-(John 8:19). "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am "he", ye shall die in your sins."-(John 8:24) we should note that "he" in the verse is in italics, which indicates that it is not in the original Greek, been added by the translators. Jesus was really identifying Himself with the "I AM" of (Exodus 3:14). The Jews who did not understand his meaning, asked, "Who art thou?" Jesus answered, "Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."-(John 8:25). However "They understood not that he spake to them of the Father."-(John 8:27). In other words, Jesus tried to tell them that He is the Father and the I AM and that if they did not accept Him as God they would die in their sins.

"this comes from the mouth of Jesus."

 

[Naphal]

So you did not pass my challenge.

lol, I just stepped around it because I already knew what it was.

No one in the bible was baptized in the titles of God.

It's not recorded but that is a moot point.

And you say "all three even in one name" how can you have three different but yet the same name?

I explained it, just go back and read it again.

Is it not logic that there is only one? And I also just want to point out you wrote "God's saviour" but God has no saviour, God is the Saviour.

God does have a Saviour. He sent that Saviour to save us and it was his Son.


Act_13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Jesus Himself taught that He was the Father.

no he didn't, even your posted scripture shows Christ speaking about someone else who is his Father.



Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Note that BOTH say "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Answer that one.

 

[GaryMac]

Read Revelation 5. Jesus is worshiped on the same level as the Father.

I don't think you understand what "no flesh inherits" the kingdom of Heaven. Did not Jesus inherit it, yet He was fully human and God?

To NOT worship Jesus means that you don't believe in Him. If you don't honor Him as you honor the Father, then you are still in your sins.


Jesus, God, is in me, and I hope He's in you.




Grace and Love

God sent Jesus as example of what we are to be. Have the same Spirit in you, have the same mind, have the same walk.

God came to Jesus in Spirit in Matt 3;16 and opend all of heaven to the man. The same happens in us all who recieve the same from God. Jesus refered to the process as born again. A renewing of the mind to think as He thinks, same mind, same Spirit. And if you honor a god of flesh, a man as your god, you will never know the God of Spirit that came and made His abode in that man from Matt 3:16. God is a Spirit not a man He has made His abode in the man. And in that is no flesh at all. Only SPirit, His kingdom is SPirit and you must worship Him in SPirit, His SPirit. His kingdom does not come with observation as you would see in a man as a god. Luke 17:20-21

 

[GaryMac]

One question:

If Jesus is not God, then how does He intercede for EVERY SINGLE PERSON constantly?

If Jesus is not God, then HOW CAN HE MAKE HIS HOME IN US? HOW CAN HE BE IN OUR MIDST IF HE IS NOT GOD?


(sorry for caps)


Grace and Love

The same way all intercede, by prayer.
Jesus had the same flesh as you and I, he was made of a woman born under the law just as you and I. God came to the man in SPirit in Matt 3:16 just as He is suposed to in you and I. Behold the kingdom of God is withn you, in your midst, mid, middle, in the middle of your being, just as Jesus said it is.

 

[GaryMac]

Just remember, this is a brother to brother discussion.

Indeed it is.

 

[GaryMac]

Gary - We're *not* equal with God. That is what a person who believes we can become gods would say.

Anyways, I understand that you're on the road, but that doesn't give you an excuse to take a verse out of context.

Let's look in the context, shall we?

(and I'll be using the NASB for your info. )

John 16:16-33

16 “A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me.” 17 Some of His disciples then said to one another, “What is this thing He is telling us, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’; and, ‘because I go to the Father’?” 18 So they were saying, “What is this that He says, ‘A little while’? We do not know what He is talking about.” 19 Jesus knew that they wished to question Him, and He said to them, “Are you deliberating together about this, that I said, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me, and again a little while, and you will see Me’? 20 Truly, truly, I say to you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will grieve, but your grief will be turned into joy. 21 Whenever a woman is in labor she has [d]pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a [e]child has been born into the world. 22 Therefore you too have grief now; but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.
Prayer Promises

23 In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. 24 Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.
25 “These things I have spoken to you in [f]figurative language; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.”

(Note that he "came forth" from the Father - This implies more than just being sent as other prophets)

29 His disciples *said, “Lo, now You are speaking plainly and are not [h]using a figure of speech. 30 Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.” 31 Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32 Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”



He is talking about His coming Resurrection. “A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me.” (verse 16). Up to that point He had been using parables, and they had been asking Him many things. But, He says that when they see Him again they will not need to question anymore, for they will truly know who He is and what He came for. "These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” (verse 33)



I am happy to ask Him for anything; for He Himself will do it (John 14:14). I can ask no other human being except for " the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." (John 3:13)




Grace and Love

Christ opens things to us we could not see before. I asked Christ into my life in Nov 1974. I did all the things the church demanded of me, musician, youth pastor, deacon, elder and spent the last 25 years of my church days in prison ministry counseling.

I was the three piece suit guy with my big ole black bible and a hand full of tracts out to save the world, and you know the type. I looked good man. In the mid 90s I went into a prison at Iowa Park Texas just north of Wichita Falls and took about ten of the men from the church who had never done anything like this before. Had my suit, my big ole black bible, sack full of tracts, and I was ready to go. We were to meet some other guys from other ministries and were cleared to go to lockdown.

AT the muster point I could hear the roar of motorcycles and about twenty five bikers were circling the unit making as much noise as they could, yelling and revving their engines. My thoughs was who are these idiots, was it a protest, what was it?

To my surprise these bikers entered the staging point where we were to get our assignments. To find out these bikers were here to witness the Christ. My thoughts were these guys need to get saved themselves, beard, tattoos, chains leathers, everything associated to the like. They need a suit.

The guy who was in charge of the meeting begin to pare us up two by two. I was concerned with the people I brought because they clung to me like little kids in a strange place not knowing what to expect or do, one even clung to my coat tail. To my surprise I was pared with one of these bikers, and we all went to our designated blocks.

He had a long beard and hair, leather jacket with Jesus on the back, chains, biker cap, and we decided he would start on one end of the block and I on the other and meet in the middle. The first guy I came to took one look at me and took his sheet and rolled up in it like a cocoon, covered his head and lay on his bunk facing the wall . I figured that was a good sign he didn’t want to talk to me.

We went from cell to cell and met in the middle and then the biker guy went to the one who rejected me and begin his witness and eventually the guy confessed Christ as lord. When he was done I went back to the guy and asked.

“Why would you talk to him and not talk to me.” And his reply was blunt. “I cant relate to you … you are to clean!”

From that day forward my life in Christ changed, I saw myself. Everything I thought that I am was but filthy rags. I was so holy I was no good to God or anyone. I shucked the suit, I shucked the deacon, I shucked the elder, and went into a wilderness. I let my hair grow to the center of my back and haven’t owned a suit sense then. My witness after that to inmates made a 180 degree turn winding up making some very good friends behind bars. Didn’t matter if they followed the way of Christ or not, that is not my concern that is Gods, my concern is to be the best friend I can be no matter who or what one may be.

We look into a mirror darkly and see an image of a man or woman trying to portray a Godly image in an outward appearance with his beautiful suit and big ole bible upholding the law, looking good. Once that image is broken and we see who we really are and we look into that same mirror then face to face we see a son of God.

A lot of people in this forum and out are much like the guy in the three piece suit. Wanting to look good and be their best for God and uphold the laws of the church but doing so without the blessings of Christ be in them.

I hear their testimonies and they hear mine. One says you have to speak in tongues, another says it passed away. On says you have to be dunked in water, another says you don’t, one says you have to give tithes, another says you don’t. And it goes on and on for laws for tradition which are designed to hold you to mans doctrines instead of Christ’s. But I can tell you from experience, once Christ enters your being, all these childish and foolish antiques are out the window and you put on His nature, His mind, and live in the life of His deity that He puts within. We become His everything and in this is where God resides, not in these laws for tradition that are designed to regulate God. And in this my eyes and ears are opened.

And in this I am one with Him, He in me and I in Him as one as I was designed to be. And in that day as you quoted, you will ask him nothing but go to the Father for yourself, just as Jesus did for himself.

And as far as His coming resurrection He is raised in me bringing to life that which was dead in Him.

I am happy to recieve from Him everything He has.

 

[R3V07UTI0N]

lol, I just stepped around it because I already knew what it was.



It's not recorded but that is a moot point.




I explained it, just go back and read it again.



God does have a Saviour. He sent that Saviour to save us and it was his Son.


Act_13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:





no he didn't, even your posted scripture shows Christ speaking about someone else who is his Father.



Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Note that BOTH say "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Answer that one.

God doesn't have a saviour. God is the saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."(Isaiah 43:11) The Father (Old Testament)
"But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"(2 Timothy 1:10) The Son (New Testament).

The Spirit of the Father is in Jesus Christ making Him the Father.
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10)


"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) The Father (Old Testament)


"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Revelation 22:13) The Son (New Testament)

I answered you....note that the Father has the same characteristics as the Son. Why? Because Jesus has a dual character.

The Lamb and the Lion
The Servant and the King
The Carpenter and the Door
The First and the Last
The Beginning and the End
The Alpha and the Omega
The Father and the Son
And many more

 

[ada]

My Name is REVOLUTION or R3V07UTI0N and you are just cattle,
are all wrong and i am obligated and obsessed to destroy Christianity
cause my talmudic antichrist bible and the kabbalah and zohar summed up as the jeiwsh antichrist thorah,
told me so.

 

[cronjecj]

My Name is REVOLUTION or R3V07UTI0N and you are just cattle,
are all wrong and i am obligated and obsessed to destroy Christianity
cause my talmudic antichrist bible and the kabbalah and zohar summed up as the jeiwsh antichrist thorah,
told me so.

What are you talking about ada?

 

[Mikaeli]

Do we have to tear apart all the age old wounds? We all know God loves us, and He gave His only begotten son for us. I mean what more do we need? Why are we still arguing about these insignificant issues???

God loves you no matter what, and God loves your enemy, no matter what..
Love is our weapon, and it's the mightiest weapon of all when it's backed up by the word of God.

We all know what Jesus did for us, do we really have to make it more complicated?

 

[zackabba]

Christ opens things to us we could not see before. I asked Christ into my life in Nov 1974. I did all the things the church demanded of me, musician, youth pastor, deacon, elder and spent the last 25 years of my church days in prison ministry counseling.

I was the three piece suit guy with my big ole black bible and a hand full of tracts out to save the world, and you know the type. I looked good man. In the mid 90s I went into a prison at Iowa Park Texas just north of Wichita Falls and took about ten of the men from the church who had never done anything like this before. Had my suit, my big ole black bible, sack full of tracts, and I was ready to go. We were to meet some other guys from other ministries and were cleared to go to lockdown.

AT the muster point I could hear the roar of motorcycles and about twenty five bikers were circling the unit making as much noise as they could, yelling and revving their engines. My thoughs was who are these idiots, was it a protest, what was it?

To my surprise these bikers entered the staging point where we were to get our assignments. To find out these bikers were here to witness the Christ. My thoughts were these guys need to get saved themselves, beard, tattoos, chains leathers, everything associated to the like. They need a suit.

The guy who was in charge of the meeting begin to pare us up two by two. I was concerned with the people I brought because they clung to me like little kids in a strange place not knowing what to expect or do, one even clung to my coat tail. To my surprise I was pared with one of these bikers, and we all went to our designated blocks.

He had a long beard and hair, leather jacket with Jesus on the back, chains, biker cap, and we decided he would start on one end of the block and I on the other and meet in the middle. The first guy I came to took one look at me and took his sheet and rolled up in it like a cocoon, covered his head and lay on his bunk facing the wall . I figured that was a good sign he didn’t want to talk to me.

We went from cell to cell and met in the middle and then the biker guy went to the one who rejected me and begin his witness and eventually the guy confessed Christ as lord. When he was done I went back to the guy and asked.

“Why would you talk to him and not talk to me.” And his reply was blunt. “I cant relate to you … you are to clean!”

From that day forward my life in Christ changed, I saw myself. Everything I thought that I am was but filthy rags. I was so holy I was no good to God or anyone. I shucked the suit, I shucked the deacon, I shucked the elder, and went into a wilderness. I let my hair grow to the center of my back and haven’t owned a suit sense then. My witness after that to inmates made a 180 degree turn winding up making some very good friends behind bars. Didn’t matter if they followed the way of Christ or not, that is not my concern that is Gods, my concern is to be the best friend I can be no matter who or what one may be.

We look into a mirror darkly and see an image of a man or woman trying to portray a Godly image in an outward appearance with his beautiful suit and big ole bible upholding the law, looking good. Once that image is broken and we see who we really are and we look into that same mirror then face to face we see a son of God.

A lot of people in this forum and out are much like the guy in the three piece suit. Wanting to look good and be their best for God and uphold the laws of the church but doing so without the blessings of Christ be in them.

I hear their testimonies and they hear mine. One says you have to speak in tongues, another says it passed away. On says you have to be dunked in water, another says you don’t, one says you have to give tithes, another says you don’t. And it goes on and on for laws for tradition which are designed to hold you to mans doctrines instead of Christ’s. But I can tell you from experience, once Christ enters your being, all these childish and foolish antiques are out the window and you put on His nature, His mind, and live in the life of His deity that He puts within. We become His everything and in this is where God resides, not in these laws for tradition that are designed to regulate God. And in this my eyes and ears are opened.

And in this I am one with Him, He in me and I in Him as one as I was designed to be. And in that day as you quoted, you will ask him nothing but go to the Father for yourself, just as Jesus did for himself.

And as far as His coming resurrection He is raised in me bringing to life that which was dead in Him.

I am happy to recieve from Him everything He has.

Amen

I don't have anything against your testimony. Scripture does say that if we honor Christ as Lord in our hearts, we will be saved.

I do believe that Christ shares in the nature of God. Could I be wrong? Yes. But then the Scriptures would be wrong as well.

Of course, Christ is my foundation. The Bible *is* a foundation, but not my main one. Mine is the true and living God. His Word is Christ. The Bible is God-breathed, created by the Word, yet we are only to worship God and never the Bible.

(just an aside)

Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

God doesn't have a saviour. God is the saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."(Isaiah 43:11) The Father (Old Testament)
"But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"(2 Timothy 1:10) The Son (New Testament).

The Spirit of the Father is in Jesus Christ making Him the Father.
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10)


"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6) The Father (Old Testament)


"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Revelation 22:13) The Son (New Testament)

I answered you....note that the Father has the same characteristics as the Son. Why? Because Jesus has a dual character.

The Lamb and the Lion
The Servant and the King
The Carpenter and the Door
The First and the Last
The Beginning and the End
The Alpha and the Omega
The Father and the Son
And many more

Or, could it be that Jesus *shares* in the nature of God, yet is not the Father still?

In one way, yes, He is the Father. In another way, He is not.

Who said in the cloud "this is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased?"

Was Jesus saying He was pleased with Himself?



Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

Here's the verdict:

In the 1st century there weren't as many doctrines around as there are now.

Believers in Christ did not think as much on His nature as we do now, I believe.

Instead, they honored and worshiped Him as God.

We should also honor the Son just as we honor the Father. When we honor the Son, we honor the Father. When we honor the Father, we honor the Son. All through the working of the Holy Spirit of God and Christ in us, who reminds us of Jesus' words and teaches us about Him, and who also helps us in prayer and in our weakness. Christ dwells in our hearts by His Spirit. The Father does as well. So, honor Christ as God in your hearts, as the Sovereign Lord, as the Alpha and Omega, as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as the Lion of Judah and the Lamb of God, as the Almighty Creator of the heavens and earth, all to the glory of God the Father. Amen.



Christ is not a god. He is GOD in the flesh.

 

[cronjecj]

Do we have to tear apart all the age old wounds? We all know God loves us, and He gave His only begotten son for us. I mean what more do we need? Why are we still arguing about these insignificant issues???

God loves you no matter what, and God loves your enemy, no matter what..
Love is our weapon, and it's the mightiest weapon of all when it's backed up by the word of God.

We all know what Jesus did for us, do we really have to make it more complicated?

And one big amen there.

 

[GaryMac]

Amen

I don't have anything against your testimony. Scripture does say that if we honor Christ as Lord in our hearts, we will be saved.

I do believe that Christ shares in the nature of God. Could I be wrong? Yes. But then the Scriptures would be wrong as well.

Of course, Christ is my foundation. The Bible *is* a foundation, but not my main one. Mine is the true and living God. His Word is Christ. The Bible is God-breathed, created by the Word, yet we are only to worship God and never the Bible.

(just an aside)

Grace and Love

I agree we are to worship only God and what is writtenis only a tutorial to lead you to the Christ, Christ in you and is same SPirit be in you who was in Christ Jesus,andr the same mind in you who was in him, and walk as He walks, and pick up that cross and continue where he left off. Few who find His way and are as He is and one with Him. Many say they follow the way of Christ but are not like Him at all!

 

[cronjecj]

Here's the verdict:

In the 1st century there weren't as many doctrines around as there are now.

Believers in Christ did not think as much on His nature as we do now, I believe.

Instead, they honored and worshiped Him as God.

We should also honor the Son just as we honor the Father. When we honor the Son, we honor the Father. When we honor the Father, we honor the Son. All through the working of the Holy Spirit of God and Christ in us, who reminds us of Jesus' words and teaches us about Him, and who also helps us in prayer and in our weakness. Christ dwells in our hearts by His Spirit. The Father does as well. So, honor Christ as God in your hearts, as the Sovereign Lord, as the Alpha and Omega, as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as the Lion of Judah and the Lamb of God, as the Almighty Creator of the heavens and earth, all to the glory of God the Father. Amen.



Christ is not a god. He is GOD in the flesh.

agree.....

 

[Naphal]

agree.....

Its just Semantics. Christ is a God, there is only one true God and Christ is a God, the God, God God.

 

[cronjecj]

Its just Semantics. Christ is a God, there is only one true God and Christ is a God, the God, God God.

It's like this,

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God (Jesus Christ) created the heavens and the earth.

 

[GaryMac]

Amen

I don't have anything against your testimony. Scripture does say that if we honor Christ as Lord in our hearts, we will be saved.

I do believe that Christ shares in the nature of God. Could I be wrong? Yes. But then the Scriptures would be wrong as well.

Of course, Christ is my foundation. The Bible *is* a foundation, but not my main one. Mine is the true and living God. His Word is Christ. The Bible is God-breathed, created by the Word, yet we are only to worship God and never the Bible.

(just an aside)

Grace and Love

Christ is the nature of God, Christ in you is the hope of glory. Christ in you is His diety working in you as one. And all who have the Christ are His living word and speak for themselves the same things spoke of for himslef, and Paul and all of these whp put on the Christ. We are no different from any of these. God never has changed, same in these who is in us.

 

[Tobby17]

No Jesus is not a God, neither is he God..

Why?.. Because some people say he isn't