The dead are asleep

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C

cfultz3

Guest
#141
#141
Laodicea said:
Remember the Bible says that they are asleep
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/38967-dead-asleep.html#post662275

What does it mean that they are asleep?
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I would suppose that their body has returned to dust. That is what I gather from:

Job_7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

1Th_5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him

I guess I need to ask, "If He died for me, whether I am alive in my body or my body is returned to dust, does my soul die also or does my soul, the "I" of who I am as a being, live"?

Does He abandon me to Death even for a minute eternity?

 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#142
#142
cfultz3 said:
I would suppose that their body has returned to dust. That is what I gather from:

Job_7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

1Th_5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him

I guess I need to ask, "If He died for me, whether I am alive in my body or my body is returned to dust, does my soul die also or does my soul, the "I" of who I am as a being, live"?

Does He abandon me to Death even for a minute eternity?
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I think a word study on the word sleep when it is referring to death would be good
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#143
#143
peacefulbeliever said:
We are in the graves asleep until he comes back - God never meant for His word to be hard- He meant for it to be simple. When you go to sleep at night (no dreams) you don't remember anything until the morning right? that's how it will be.
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So, we are abandoned by Christ, even if it is "a tick of a clock" in eternity?
 
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shroom2

Banned
#144
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
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#144
cfultz3 said:
So, we are abandoned by Christ, even if it is "a tick of a clock" in eternity?
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We will not be "abandoned". He will return.

1 Thes 4:
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#145
#145
Laodicea said:
I think a word study on the word sleep when it is referring to death would be good
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That is a very good suggestion. Having done so, these questions still remain in my attempt of harmonizing "soul sleep" and "being alive to God through Jesus Christ".

Does the body sleep or/and the soul?

If the soul sleeps, where does it go to sleep?

Does Christ awaken both the body and soul at the same time, or are we with Him when He calls the bodies out of the grave to be "reunited" with the soul?

If we are with Him, then how can my soul be asleep?
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#146
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#146
Laodicea said:
Jesus is God, but He did not use His own power in overcoming or He could not be our example. Jesus used the power of the word as in Matthew 4, He spent sometimes all night in prayer, He was fully surrendered to His Father that is how He overcame. Jesus is God but, He humbled himself.
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Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be made dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ has abounded unto many. and not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one (Adam); much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one (man), Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one (man) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (man) shall many be made righteous.

That's what I meant by - The first Adam messed up everything by sinning - the second Adam - Jesus Christ - fixed everything by being perfect.

Since this thread is titled - The dead are asleep - That's all I will say on this here. I do apologize for getting off topic.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#147
#147
shroom2 said:
We will not be "abandoned". He will return.

1 Thes 4:
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
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So, just say for 1 sec we are left in death, would that not negate that He would never abandon us?
So, we are with Him?
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#148
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#148
cfultz3 said:
That is a very good suggestion. Having done so, these questions still remain in my attempt of harmonizing "soul sleep" and "being alive to God through Jesus Christ".

Does the body sleep or/and the soul?
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Don't make it more complicated than it is. We simply die. We will cease to be alive.

If the soul sleeps, where does it go to sleep?
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"soul sleep" is a derogatory term coined by people who believe that when you die, your "soul" goes immediately to hell or heaven. When we die, no part of us literally "sleeps". We die. This may seem rather crass, but go look at a dead cat. Do you ask yourself "I wonder where its soul went?" No. You know the cat is dead. There's its body (which will disintegrate into dust), but its life is gone. That's what happens to us.

Sleep is an analogy for death used in the bible. The analogy is good because we know nothing in sleep, and time passes seemingly instantly (barring dreams).

By the way, animals do have soul.

Gen 1:21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth...

The word creature is nephesh, the exact word used in Gen 2:7)...and man became a living soul.

Does Christ awaken both the body and soul at the same time, or are we with Him when He calls the bodies out of the grave to be "reunited" with the soul?
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If we die, we will be raised from the dead. We will get new bodies, made alive by spirit instead of soul.

If we are with Him, then how can my soul be asleep?
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When he returns and we are with him, you will no longer be dead. No more "sleeping".

God bless.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#149
#149
shroom2 said:
What I have "contrived" comes from the Word of God.

Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by God three days after he was crucified. He is the firstfruits.

GOD'S WORD teaches that there are three more times people will be raised from the dead to everlasting life. The rapture, for Christians, then the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. That's it.
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Sheesh:rolleyes:. Do I really want to open this can of worms??? I knew you held to something like that, but I avoided bringing it up to spare others from hearing more error.

Tom
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#150
#150
shroom2 said:
Don't make it more complicated than it is. We simply die. We will cease to be alive.


"soul sleep" is a derogatory term coined by people who believe that when you die, your "soul" goes immediately to hell or heaven. When we die, no part of us literally "sleeps". We die. This may seem rather crass, but go look at a dead cat. Do you ask yourself "I wonder where its soul went?" No. You know the cat is dead. There's its body (which will disintegrate into dust), but its life is gone. That's what happens to us.

Sleep is an analogy for death used in the bible. The analogy is good because we know nothing in sleep, and time passes seemingly instantly (barring dreams).

By the way, animals do have soul.

Gen 1:21) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth...

The word creature is nephesh, the exact word used in Gen 2:7)...and man became a living soul.


If we die, we will be raised from the dead. We will get new bodies, made alive by spirit instead of soul.


When he returns and we are with him, you will no longer be dead. No more "sleeping".

God bless.
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I am trying to understand, where does the soul go and await the second coming of Jesus?

What I gather from Scriptures there are only two places for a soul to go, Heaven or Hades? I also, from a studying of "Hades/pit" in the OT, that they who are in Hades can speak, see, cry....etc. So do our soul go to Hades and await for Christ?
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#151
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#151
Tombo said:
Sheesh:rolleyes:. Do I really want to open this can of worms??? I knew you held to something like that, but I avoided bringing it up to spare others from hearing more error.

Tom
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I take it you do not believe in a pre-trib rapture for Christians?

Start a thread on it. I don't mind correcting more of your error.;)

Bed for me, busy tomorrow, so it may be a day or two before you hear back.

Don't get in trouble, now, Tom.;)
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#152
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#152
cfultz3 said:
I am trying to understand, where does the soul go and await the second coming of Jesus?

What I gather from Scriptures there are only two places for a soul to go, Heaven or Hades? I also, from a studying of "Hades/pit" in the OT, that they who are in Hades can speak, see, cry....etc. So do our soul go to Hades and await for Christ?
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Our "souls" do not "go" anywhere. We, as people, as living beings, simply die. It really is that simple.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#153
#153
Jesus commited His spirit to His father while His body was laid in the tomb. The thief on the cross went in His spirit to paradise with His Lord and his body was laid in a tomb. Really is simple.


Tom
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#154
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#154
Tombo said:
Jesus commited His spirit to His father while His body was laid in the tomb. The thief on the cross went in His spirit to paradise with His Lord and his body was laid in a tomb. Really is simple.

Tom
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You're quick to jump all over others who promote error, even telling them they aren't Christian.

You promote error and don't even know it.

g'nite, Tom
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#155
#155
peacefulbeliever said:
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be made dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ has abounded unto many. and not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one (Adam); much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one (man), Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one (man) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (man) shall many be made righteous.

That's what I meant by - The first Adam messed up everything by sinning - the second Adam - Jesus Christ - fixed everything by being perfect.

Since this thread is titled - The dead are asleep - That's all I will say on this here. I do apologize for getting off topic.
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John 10:17-18
(17) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
(18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Who else could do this but God
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#156
#156
Laodicea said:
John 10:17-18
(17) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
(18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Who else could do this but God
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Amen!!!! No argument form me:). I like letting the Bible speak for itself.

Tom
 
Spiritual_Plague

Spiritual_Plague

Senior Member
#157
Aug 1, 2009
349
9
18
#157
shroom2 said:
Our "souls" do not "go" anywhere. We, as people, as living beings, simply die. It really is that simple.
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Gen 35:18 And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

The spirit also departs at death as well.

Psa 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.


So scripture shows that the soul departs and so does the spirit at death. So, both spirit and soul go somewhere. Do you know where they go?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#158
#158
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
Genesis 19:4
(4) But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Joshua 2:1
(1) And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.
Job 11:18
(18) And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.
2 Samuel 8:2
(2) And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines measured he to put to death, and with one full line to keep alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.
Job 3:13
(13) For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
Job 38:37
(37) Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
Proverbs 6:9
(9) How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?

All the words in red in these verses are all translated from the same word, so according to all this what does it mean when the Bible talks about sleep in death?


 
Spiritual_Plague

Spiritual_Plague

Senior Member
#159
Aug 1, 2009
349
9
18
#159
It shows that dead bodies are "at rest", or not working/doing anything, when the soul and the spirit depart. When the soul and spirit depart...they are not at rest by definition- being they are departing. What else do the spirit and soul do apart from the body??
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#160
#160
These verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can exist outside the body, unless Paul was badly mistaken, and if he was, then that opens up a serious can of worms.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

And these verse's prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the dead are still alive. And notice what they were talking about....it proves the conversation was in real time.

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died:

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
 
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