If it's not an angel from the heavenly host and it is human, then that surely puts a big hole in the doctrine of the souls of the righteous dead remaining in the grave until the resurrection. Study some more and I'll let you know what I come up with. Right now it appears to be a literal angel from the host of heaven but let's find out. The terms used in those verses by the angel (messenger) certainly point to a human association of some kind, but it is a bit of a mystery the way it is written.
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C
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
Jesus spoke to the 7 angels (pastors) of the churches in Rev 2:1, 2:8, 2:12, 18, 3:1, 7, 14.
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
Jesus spoke to the 7 angels (pastors) of the churches in Rev 2:1, 2:8, 2:12, 18, 3:1, 7, 14.
K
Humans can be an "angel"
This is clearly talking about John the baptist.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee
Messenger
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
This is clearly talking about John the baptist.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee
Messenger
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
K
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
L
Now you are putting your own private interpretation on the Bible.
2 Peter 1:20
(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Revelation 1:1
(1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
You people are putting giving your interpretation of the Bible and are passing it off as truth. If you people want to discuss humans as angels then you can start your own thread
2 Peter 1:20
(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Revelation 1:1
(1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
You people are putting giving your interpretation of the Bible and are passing it off as truth. If you people want to discuss humans as angels then you can start your own thread
C
Laodicea,
I brought something up for discussion. Isn't all of God's word worth looking into. I do not think I mentioned that it was a private interpretation, but I am sure, I gave the indication that it is worth debating. How can it be declared truth, if all we are doing is talking about. This has everything to do with the thread.
I brought something up for discussion. Isn't all of God's word worth looking into. I do not think I mentioned that it was a private interpretation, but I am sure, I gave the indication that it is worth debating. How can it be declared truth, if all we are doing is talking about. This has everything to do with the thread.
T
Angel can be translated messenger, it is the same word. I don't know about the verse in question, but I have always thought the verse in Hebrews 13:2 should have been translated messenger. "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels/messengers unawares." I think that verse is simply saying to show hospitality to all because you never know if one may be a messenger of the gospel just like you. I don't think it's speaking of heavenly angels at all. But I don't think it's too far fetched (and I've heard some far fetched things) to think that the verse you speak of could be speaking of a fellow human messenger who previously died. But really, we have many more clear verses that show the dead in Christ are alive, so it's no big deal.
God bless.
Tom
God bless.
Tom
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C
but humans are pastors and messengers (NT = go and perach the Gospel, OT = prophets).
The thread is about "the dead are asleep", and if this "angel (messebger)" is a brother to John from the prophets, then that has everything to do with wether or not the dead are asleep or awake. But, it is your thread and I will honor that.
I
LAODICEA
YOU SAID: Souls under the altar is symbolic for the life of the martyrs who gave their life for God. During the dark ages there were many put to death, it has been estimated that there were 50, 000, 000 martyrs during the dark ages.
Laodicea...that was a very good history lesson, that's why I'm impressed with tour knowledge of such things. However, one could explain away several truths of the Bible in a similar manner. I think ur over analyzing this for the sake of your doctrine. Impressive revelation as it may be, none of what you said is a FACT. What is a FACT is the Bible says that Souls were under the alter of God. There is nothing in the text offerd that would suggest that we should not take this verse literally.
I think you have to stop Laodicea and ask yourself why the Lord continues to flirt with the idea of the Human Soul existing after death. It iis really putting you guys constantly on the defensive. I mean the Lord Himself is Soul Sleeps worst problem. You guys are constantly doing damage control when opposing posters are doing nothing more than posting literal verses of scripture. Soul Sleep has no literal verses of scripture...WHY IS THAT? Not ONCE have I had to post..."Well I know that verse says and demonstrates that the Soul Sleeps but that wasn't included in the earlier manuscripts and if you move the commas it doesn't say that, and considering its really a Parable and also only symbolic you can't accept that verse in its literal setting."
YOU SAID: Souls under the altar is symbolic for the life of the martyrs who gave their life for God. During the dark ages there were many put to death, it has been estimated that there were 50, 000, 000 martyrs during the dark ages.
Laodicea...that was a very good history lesson, that's why I'm impressed with tour knowledge of such things. However, one could explain away several truths of the Bible in a similar manner. I think ur over analyzing this for the sake of your doctrine. Impressive revelation as it may be, none of what you said is a FACT. What is a FACT is the Bible says that Souls were under the alter of God. There is nothing in the text offerd that would suggest that we should not take this verse literally.
I think you have to stop Laodicea and ask yourself why the Lord continues to flirt with the idea of the Human Soul existing after death. It iis really putting you guys constantly on the defensive. I mean the Lord Himself is Soul Sleeps worst problem. You guys are constantly doing damage control when opposing posters are doing nothing more than posting literal verses of scripture. Soul Sleep has no literal verses of scripture...WHY IS THAT? Not ONCE have I had to post..."Well I know that verse says and demonstrates that the Soul Sleeps but that wasn't included in the earlier manuscripts and if you move the commas it doesn't say that, and considering its really a Parable and also only symbolic you can't accept that verse in its literal setting."
I think a good question to ask ourselves is how close this "sleep" is to real sleep. We know that physical death is not the exact same thing as sleep, and resting with the Lord in Paradise probably isn't the exact same thing as physical sleep either. So if we cannot say they are the exact same thing, then how different are these two concepts?
At any rate, the definition of sleep doesn't really matter. What matters is - as someone else said - that Christians will live on. We will find our rest in God from the work of this world.
At any rate, the definition of sleep doesn't really matter. What matters is - as someone else said - that Christians will live on. We will find our rest in God from the work of this world.