Sabbath made for Man

thefightinglamb · May 12, 2012

God does not change, but because the law separated man from God, Jesus died...why do you believe Jesus died...It was for our sins, but also to make a new covenant. The old covenant was ineffectual because it did not clear the consience of those who followed it. What is the New Covenant God made with man through Jesus?

Okay, to use your mantra that God doesn't change, how did God create a covenant with Abraham if the covenant was not there before he made it? It seems based on your ideas of what change is, he does change. When it states that God does not change it is talking about something drastically different then what you are understanding change to be.

Even in the Old Testament, you see God stating that he would destroy Israel, and then Moses stands inbetween God and Israel, and God seemingly does change based on your views...

God doesn't change has to do with God's characteristics, not his covenants with man. The first covenant was put to death when Jesus died, because Israel did not follow the law. This gave birth to the New Covenant of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is 'something you clearly don't have if you are still focused on physical laws.' The Holy Spirit leads and perfects us as we follow what is truly righteous, good, and life giving.

But as Jesus says in John, "You search the scriptures all day long searching for life, but you refuse to come to me and be saved." [my slight paraphrase]

God bless
tony

ps. I know most "Jews for Jesus" still rejoice when someone gets circumcised after they confess their faith...even though the Bible states that faith is worthless for them...do you still believe in circumcision?

Avinu · May 12, 2012

God does not change, but because the law separated man from God, Where does the Bible say this?

Jesus died...why do you believe Jesus died...It was for our sins, but also to make a new covenant. The old covenant was ineffectual because it did not clear the consience of those who followed it. What is the New Covenant God made with man through Jesus?
The NT is actually called in hebrew "The Brit Hadeshah" which translated is 'The Renewed Convenant' the english is a incorrect translation. It is not a brand new convenant as you may think. In the greek the word new and renew both come from the same primary word G3501 Neos Neoteros which means regenerate. Yeshua came to restore His Father's covenant which was becoming obsolete through the Sages teaching the false talmudic/mishna teachings of man. As I said, you really need to do your homework, for there is alot you don't understand. But if you are open to learning, I would be glad to help.

Okay, to use your mantra that God doesn't change,this is not my montra, this is YHVH's word, plain and simple.

how did God create a covenant with Abraham if the covenant was not there before he made it? It seems based on your ideas of what change is, he does change. When it states that God does not change it is talking about something drastically different then what you are understanding change to be. This entire comment makes absolutely no sense.

Even in the Old Testament, you see God stating that he would destroy Israel, and then Moses stands inbetween God and Israel, and God seemingly does change based on your views...You need to start putting evidence behind what you claim. Because I have made no such claim. I noticed you don't have any scripture to back up anything you claim.

God doesn't change has to do with God's characteristics, not his covenants with man.Now you're the one making assumption.

The first covenant was put to death with God died, because Israel did not follow the law. This gave birth to the New Covenant of the Holy Spirit.ANd your biblical evidence of this is what?

Mat 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teachthem,the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This says different than what you're claiming. I'm sure posting alot of verses that say different to your doctrine.

The Holy Spirit is 'something you clearly don't have if you are still focused on physical laws.' The Holy Spirit leads and perfects us as we follow what is truly righteous, good, and life giving. Wow, once again, lack of knowledge,

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

You think the Holy Spirit is only in the NT, once again, you make silly claims.

But as Jesus says in John, "You search the scriptures all day long searching for life, but you refuse to come to me and be saved." [my slight paraphrase]

God bless
tony

ps. I know most "Jews for Jesus" still rejoice when someone gets circumcised after they confess their faith...Once again you make uneducated guess. Whoever is giving you your education, you need to boot them out the door. Because they don't know a thing of what they are talking about.

even though the Bible states that faith is worthless for them...do you still believe in circumcision?

Circumcision of the flesh was for the purpose of being set apart unto YHVH, it has nothing to do with being saved. I notice you're still avoiding my questions. If you can't answer my questions, then there really isn't more to say. It's ok to admit you don't know, that is the start of willingness to learn and be taught. Shalom

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

thefightinglamb said:

uh oh now you've gone and done it.

...Actually talking about how God's grace gives people REST and how the SABBATH is more then a day?

How dare you!

j/k

please don't run away or be intimidated or dragged into defending a position that they will try to place you in that you never believed in the first place as if you are teaching a licentous doctrine.

God tells us to stand.

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

2knowhim said:

can't answer the questions so would rather pick on a trivial point? whether it is of animals or not is not really that important to my point. however why don't you ask your friend Avinu what "skins" refers to in Hebrew and perhaps you may get your answer to WHY people assume it means "skins of animals".

Genesis 3

21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

Avinu said:

sigh Avinu... I expected so much more from a supposed Hebrew scholar....

Numbers 28

9 ‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— 10 this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering.

as posted earlier....

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

thefightinglamb said:

I think many people forget that the OT shows how rebelilious and WRONG the Jewish people were and how they were a people meant to be holy but became even MORE profane and dirty then those they were meant to be shining examples too. so much so that they rejected their Messiah and cruxified Him.

It shows the truth to God's song that Moses taught against them. Many of the stories of the OT show how wicked humanity is and believe, yet how much grace and mercy gave to those people even though they whored with demons and false gods and idols breaking their covenant over and over again and breaking the laws over and over again, yet God still found a way to keep a seed, a remnant pure and faithful to HIm and His will.

Dueteronomy 31
19 “Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel. 20 When I have brought them to the land flowing with milk and honey, of which I swore to their fathers, and they have eaten and filled themselves and grown fat, then they will turn to other gods and serve them; and they will provoke Me and break My covenant. 21 Then it shall be, when many evils and troubles have come upon them, that this song will testify against them as a witness; for it will not be forgotten in the mouths of their descendants, for I know the inclination of their behavior today, even before I have brought them to the land of which I swore to give them.”

the song is found in Duet 32 and Jesus fulfills it all.

21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God;
They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols.
But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation;
I will move them to anger by a foolish nation.

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

Avinu said:

wow he's never said that. you just constructed a strawman that you then set out to torch.

"free loader on His blood" ?

ever heard of the word "gift" perhaps you might want to figure out if you earn it or if it is GIVEN.

If you earned it, it would be called WAGES not a Gift.....

the rest isn't even worth commenting on except perhaps you should reread your words and ask God what He thinks of them.

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

thefightinglamb said:

I find it interesting to study how God interacted with His people before Mount Horeb and the golden calf story and afterwards. God always wanted people who would worship Him in spirit and in Truth but the people rejected that sort of relationship with God and asked for a mediator. for a while it was prophets, then judges, then kings, Now God speaks to us through His Son, Jesus Christ. anyway thought this passage was interesting and then I have to go.

Numbers 11
24 So Moses went out and told the people the words of the Lord, and he gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people and placed them around the tabernacle. 25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again.[b]

Dueteronomy 18
15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’
17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’

Hebrews 1

New King James Version (NKJV)

1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our[b] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

anyway God bless and keep you!

PS for those who don't like me posting scripture or speaking what has been placed in my heart. then don't read them, but why would anyone have issues with reading more of God's word and less of men's opinions is beyond my comprehension.....

cfultz3 · May 12, 2012

This is pertaining to God having "refreshed" the Old Covenant, instead of having "brought forth" a new Covenant. This is not to make argument, but that we all will study God's word before making absolute statements.

When G3501 is used in Heb 12:24 as concerning Jesus being the Mediator of the new Covenant, and with the understanding that Hebrews 8:7-12 tells us that a second Covenant which is not (abs. neg.) according to the covenant He made with the Israelites's forefathers was needed, we are, therefore, forced to abandon the concept of Him having "regenerated" the Old Testament ,which is better rendered with H2421, G2227 under that argument. However, from G3501, we do understand that this new Covenant was given a birth, that is, recently born. In the same manner that we are to put on our new (newly born) man in Col 3:10, is the same concept G3501 is being used in Heb 12:24.

God bless you all in your study of God's word.
　
G3501 neos neōteros

A primary word, including the comparative (second form); "new", that is, (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively regenerate: - new, young.

H2319 châdâsh
From H2318; new: - fresh, new thing.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Ezekiel 11:19-21 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

G2537kainos
Thayer Definition:
1) new
1a) as respects form
1a1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 3:447, 388
　
Hebrews 8:7-12 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:16-17 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Avinu · May 12, 2012

Well I definitely have no problem in admitting I made a mistake. I totally forgot about that. You're correct. But in my defense, that is done by the priests for the people. lol

One more thing, I never claimed to be a hebrew scholar.

Avinu · May 12, 2012

H2318
חדשׁ
châdash
khaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: - renew, repair.

You left this important part out. The root meaning of Jer.31:31 is not brand new.

Hebrews 8:7:12 is a direct quote from Jer. 31:31-35 and pertains to the restoration of the two houses of Israel as it says. Has nothing to do with the church.

Ez. 11:19-21, Ez. 36:26-27,all pertain as well to the restoration of the houses of Israel which is not completed till Yeshua returns.

The word NEW in those verses also comes from the same primitive root word that is to rebuild, renew, repair.

YHVH is about restoration, not wiping out and making brand new. He will restore back to what He had intended it to be from the beginning.

cfultz3 · May 12, 2012

Avinu said:

H2318
חדשׁ
châdash
khaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: - renew, repair.

You left this important part out. The root meaning of Jer.31:31 is not brand new.

Hebrews 8:7:12 is a direct quote from Jer. 31:31-35 and pertains to the restoration of the two houses of Israel as it says. Has nothing to do with the church.

Ez. 11:19-21, Ez. 36:26-27,all pertain as well to the restoration of the houses of Israel which is not completed till Yeshua returns.

The word NEW in those verses also comes from the same primitive root word that is to rebuild, renew, repair.

YHVH is about restoration, not wiping out and making brand new. He will restore back to what He had intended it to be from the beginning.

Do you believe that we are still under the Law, the old Covenant, for our justification or, the new Covenant?

Avinu · May 12, 2012

I'm actually surprised you asked me this my friend, as you and I agree on many things. No I don't believe we are under the law, I believe fully in the The Brit Hadeshah which is the true name of the NT. Which is called the renewed covenant. Yeshua through His blood gave us the free gift of salvation, and the Torah is Yeshua. As Yeshua said, I speak not of Myself, but what the Father gives me. He delivered us from the curse of the law, but that has nothing to do with the Covenant. Even though they are connected they are still seperate things.
Plus it doesn't change the fact that the english translation of this perticular thing is incorrect as we see when breaking down the greek and hebrew. In both cases it is about restoration.

Blessings my friend.

cfultz3 · May 12, 2012

Avinu said:

I should have worded that question differently, I know from posts that you beleive in the New Covenant. My apologies. I was trying to make a distinction between "renew" and "new" as I have learnt from a study of the King James Concorance of H2318 and H2319. Sorry for any misundestanding.

Avinu · May 12, 2012

cfultz3, allow me to give this as well.

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Here is the breaking down of the greek word renewed;

G341
ἀνακαινόω
anakainoō
an-ak-ahee-no'-o
From G303 and a derivative of G2537; to renovate: - renew.

G2537
καινός
kainos
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.

G3501
νέος, νεώτερος
neos neōteros
neh'-os, neh-o'-ter-os
A primary word, including the comparative (second form); "new", that is, (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively regenerate: - new, young.

These are what the greek word for 'renew' breaks down to.

Now let's look at this verse,

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Let's break down the greek for the word new;

G2537
καινός
kainos
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.

G3501
νέος, νεώτερος
neos neōteros
neh'-os, neh-o'-ter-os
A primary word, including the comparative (second form); "new", that is, (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively regenerate: - new, young.

As you can see, both words come from the primary word 'neos neosteros' which is to regenerate, to make young again,fresh.

Let's look at the hebrew;

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

H2319
חדשׁ
châdâsh
khaw-dawsh'
From H2318; new: - fresh, new thing.

H2318
חדשׁ
châdash
khaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: - renew, repair.

So we see both in the hebrew and the greek that the word, renew, and new are the same meaning. To be rebuilt, restored, made fresh, regenerate.

Yeshua did not come to make anything brand new, He came to restore.

Shalom and blessings

cfultz3 · May 12, 2012

Avinu,

It really does not matter anymore.

Shalom

Avinu · May 12, 2012

Why? Isn't it important for us to know what is accurate from the original languages of scripture, and the mistranslation that we've received in the english?

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

Avinu said:

ok that explains a lot.

Avinu · May 12, 2012

So tell me, are you a Biblical scholar?

AnandaHya · May 12, 2012

cfultz3 said:

which covenants are you referring to Cflutz?

There is the one where people receive God's Holy Spirit which is commonly referred to as the Covenant of Abraham, which God's people had BEFORE Mount Horeb and the Golden Calf.

what is commonly referred to as the "covenant of Moses" with the law of sin and death and the rules and regulations given AFTER the Mount of Horeb and the people asking God to take His Holy Spirit and His presence from them and give them prophets instead

and the Renewed Covenant that Jesus made where God again writes His laws and Gives His people New Hearts and New Spirits and The Holy Spirit to guide them.

Sabbath made for Man

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