The Dead Stay Dead, Until the Last Day, Know one goes to Heaven

[777Yeshua777]

Memo to Tan...since Jesus came things have progressed. Did you hear yet?
Our souls now go to heaven when we die...our bodies will be raised up and changed
at the resurrection.

What was true in Solomons days was true then..until Jesus rose from the dead and ascended.

Revelations 21 tells of the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.
Verse 3 tells us that the tabernacle of YHVH will be on the Earth and he will dwell there.
He will dwell there in the flesh as Yeshua.
Yeshua is the physical manifestation of the Father. John 1:1-14
It is there that the righteous will live. Rev 21:22-27

The Feast of Tabernacles is, among many other things, the celebration of the Father making his home among his people. But, you are probably one of those people who think that's a "Jewish" holiday.
WHOSE FEASTS ARE THESE? Leviticus 23:2. The last two words are.....?

No one goes to heaven as a permanent home.

We may go there for 10 days... I haven't decided. But, it is the "10-days of awe" between Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur that seem the most likely model for "last trump" and "returning King."

Yea, those "Jewish" holidays tell you what Yeshua did already and what He's about to do. That's why the Father gave them to us. Exodus 12:38----Who are these people?

Exodus 12:49 ----- One Law for Israel and the mixed multiutude that followed them out of Egypt.

In the same way that wild branches are grafted into the olive tree... Romans 11:13-24...we are joining Israel. We are accepting their God. Isn't "God" the God of Israel? (I found that phrase 201 times in the KJV.)

I believe it is terribly lazy and naive to accept the Council of Nicea as rightly dividing the Word. 1,700 years ago a group of men who NEVER lived in Jewish culture took control of the church. Most lived more than 1,000 miles from Jerusalem, and the original apostles had been dead for 200 years. Why is it that there seems to be such a conflict between the Old and New Testaments? Obey the Law: Don't obey the Law! Which is it?


The hatred for the Jews was rampant in Europe. "Anti-judaizing" the Scriptures would ensure Constantinian domination over the Empire. The faith was hijacked in 321AD.

No one goes to heaven...God comes to us.

 

[Laodicea]

1 Corinthians 15:51-55
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

These verses are clear that we sleep til the last trump and then we receive immortality.

 

[Abiding]

Revelations 21 tells of the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.
Verse 3 tells us that the tabernacle of YHVH will be on the Earth and he will dwell there.
He will dwell there in the flesh as Yeshua.
Yeshua is the physical manifestation of the Father. John 1:1-14
It is there that the righteous will live. Rev 21:22-27show me where its says earth

The Feast of Tabernacles is, among many other things, the celebration of the Father making his home among his people. But, you are probably one of those people who think that's a "Jewish" holiday.
WHOSE FEASTS ARE THESE? Leviticus 23:2. The last two words are.....?What is your point here? All the feasts have been fulfilled...Tabernacles was fulfilled when Jesus walked the earth John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father, full of grace and truth.

No one goes to heaven as a permanent home.Heaven is relational, not locational...explain rev 20:4 ;rev 6:10-11; rev 7:9. I believe in a physical resurrection, then
immediately the final judgement as in 1 Cor 15. But these texts happen before that.

We may go there for 10 days... I haven't decided. But, it is the "10-days of awe" between Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur that seem the most likely model for "last trump" and "returning King."

Yea, those "Jewish" holidays tell you what Yeshua did already and what He's about to do. That's why the Father gave them to us. Exodus 12:38----Who are these people?really? explain, which feasts havnt seen their fulfillment. ty

Exodus 12:49 ----- One Law for Israel and the mixed multiutude that followed them out of Egypt.

In the same way that wild branches are grafted into the olive tree... Romans 11:13-24...we are joining Israel. We are accepting their God. Isn't "God" the God of Israel? (I found that phrase 201 times in the KJV.)
Yes id agree He is the God of Israel, now the church is the Israel of God. Gal.

I believe it is terribly lazy and naive to accept the Council of Nicea as rightly dividing the Word. 1,700 years ago a group of men who NEVER lived in Jewish culture took control of the church. Most lived more than 1,000 miles from Jerusalem, and the original apostles had been dead for 200 years. Why is it that there seems to be such a conflict between the Old and New Testaments? Obey the Law: Don't obey the Law!
Which is it?No doubt the Law is holy just and good. The issue should be in the mechanics of it. The councils give me no trouble...often judiazers do tho, but no more than the rest of the heritics in the church.


The hatred for the Jews was rampant in Europe. "Anti-judaizing" the Scriptures would ensure Constantinian domination over the Empire. The faith was hijacked in 321AD.
I think there has been enough time for that to be well known and documented...ancient history. There are constant contemporary heretics rising up and putting a new spin on all the old heresies.

No one goes to heaven...God comes to us.

.....................

 

[Saint-John]

Yes ..go Tan....

1cor15v51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

as for the thief on the cross syndrome ..go tan again...

1st were still under old testament..(Jesus not yet glorified)
2nd Paradise, Greek = plot of ground.... or garden
3rd as Tan said..early on the third day he rose from THE GRAVE

so were Jesus went was clearly NOT HEAVEN

 

[Abiding]

You quoting different situation in which the has not mention one time that people go to heaven where the Lord is right now. In fact Paul said in Acts 13: 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Now David is a man after God own heart, this is very important, because it bring us to the next verse....lets go to Acts 2: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

David would of definitely been in heaven where the Lord is if that was the case. But Jesus said in John 6: 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Jesus said this four times for a reason. Once we know what is in the Bible, then we no what’s not.

Yes i understand our bodies will be raised up before judgement as in 1 Cor 15..but can you give opinion on the three times in revelation John see souls that are alive in heaven?

 

[Laodicea]

Yes i understand our bodies will be raised up before judgement as in 1 Cor 15..but can you give opinion on the three times in revelation John see souls that are alive in heaven?

Where does it say in Revelation that that souls are alive in heaven?

 

[Abiding]

Ok and remember Paul and Jesus and Peter taught a physical bodily resurection
then immediate Judgement, then the eternal state.

There are many i see in Revelation. These are the ones that stand out most.
Rev. 6:9-11; 7:0; 20:4

 

[Laodicea]

Ok and remember Paul and Jesus and Peter taught a physical bodily resurection
then immediate Judgement, then the eternal state.

There are many i see in Revelation. These are the ones that stand out most.
Rev. 6:9-11; 7:0; 20:4

Rev 6:9-11 does not say they are in heaven. What verse is 7:0?

 

[Abiding]

7:9 ....where were they? Who were they talking to? Whats with the robes?

 

[Laodicea]

7:9 ....where were they? Who were they talking to? Whats with the robes?

Rev 7 answers the question in Rev 6

 

[Red33]

Let's see if we can come to an understanding based upon three different judgments.

1 - The judgment seat of those in Christ that make up the church that takes place in the heaven of the clouds of the air (with the dead in Christ rise first and rewards given based upon works) as part of the first resurrection prior to the time of the great tribulation.

2 - The judgment of the nations (sheep and goats separated based upon their treatment of Israel) that takes place on the earth just after the second coming of Christ at the end of the great tribulation that has come upon the earth.

3 - The great white throne judgment (of the wicked dead that will be raised and given up from the sea and from hell) that will take place in heaven at the end of the 1,000 millennial earthly reign of Christ just prior to the new heaven and earth that Gods creates through a fervent heat.

 

[Bookends]

King David's punishment for the death of Uriah was that the son born to him by Bethsheba would die.

King David had a concept of afterlife, as well as Paul, to be absent from the body is to present with the Lord.

2 Samuel 12
23 But he is dead now. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? No. I am going where he is, but he won’t come back to me.”
There very reason why K David got up as soon as the child was dead and acted as if nothing had happened is not because David was going to die and become dust like his Child (David is not saying he is going to the grave where he is), it's because K David knew and understood there was a life afterlife, a spiritual life. Hank Hanegraaff is coming out with a book called Life, after Life-after-Live, click on the link <---, which refutes soul sleep. This a terrible and false doctrine of the SDA Church.

 

[Tan]

Yes i understand our bodies will be raised up before judgement as in 1 Cor 15..but can you give opinion on the three times in revelation John see souls that are alive in heaven?

Only those in the first resurrection will be raise before Judgement. Lets go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Tan]

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave. Why does he continue to say "under the sun"? He's said it twice. We will find out a little later.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.
If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does
the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.
Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath. David clarifies this even further in the 88th Psalm.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
What did he call the grave? The land of forgetfulness. So far the Bible is consistent.

 

[GreenNnice]

I see you ask me a question then decide to answer it youself...of course the wrong way. The problem I see with you is that you are lacking a lot of undertstanding and knowledge. I don't think you are going to find Bible scriptures to support your mindset.
I'll try and straighten out some of the things you are talking about.


[/COLOR]

Lets go to Phillippians 2: 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There more to explain on this, but because you jam so much together that you have gotten yourself all twisted up in false doctrine. Lets take a look in how the Lord system operate. Revelation 1: 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shooew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

So God (Father) gave the word to Jesus, and Jesus gaves the word to the angel, and the angel, gaves the word to man. This is how the system works, except when Jesus was here, because there was know need for the Holy Ghost. Jesus said in John 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. So if a person do not know anything the Holy Ghost can't bring things to people remembrance and will not be able to teach, this is why you have a problem in understanding how thing work in the Lord. You have to be taught this word of God, keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday). This is people main error in the Lord.

The day of the Sabbath is between you and God, Tanone.
Never forget that, Christ peeps, anything said less, and, of sabbath's time requirement for salvation, nor evento, its WORKS requirement for salvation, is FALSELY preaching to you, for the Spirit, through His Word, wholly leads each one of us inbour lives purely individually, right on down to how and when we, in Him, will DO our 'rest.'

 

[Laodicea]

King David's punishment for the death of Uriah was that the son born to him by Bethsheba would die.

King David had a concept of afterlife, as well as Paul, to be absent from the body is to present with the Lord.

2 Samuel 12
23 But he is dead now. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? No. I am going where he is, but he won’t come back to me.”
There very reason why K David got up as soon as the child was dead and acted as if nothing had happened is not because David was going to die and become dust like his Child (David is not saying he is going to the grave where he is), it's because K David knew and understood there was a life afterlife, a spiritual life. Hank Hanegraaff is coming out with a book called Life, after Life-after-Live, click on the link <---, which refutes soul sleep. This a terrible and false doctrine of the SDA Church.

Genesis 3:3-4
(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


The terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan and is believed by many Christians.

 

[Abiding]

Only those in the first resurrection will be raise before Judgement. Lets go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Yes i see that..and that just makes my point. Read a few more times please.
What im saying is that "souls" are in heaven before the bodily ressurrection.

 

[Abiding]

Genesis 3:3-4
(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


The terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan and is believed by many Christians.

This statement is absurd. How can you compare eternal death..to life after redemption and physical death? Really? This flies in the face of Jesus teachings. Pretty sloppy..maybe you could rewrite this and reword it.
And explain what it means. ty

Also you asked for references yet gave no comment...but one answers the other. May have just as well said mary had a little lamb.

 

[GreenNnice]

King David's punishment for the death of Uriah was that the son born to him by Bethsheba would die.

King David had a concept of afterlife, as well as Paul, to be absent from the body is to present with the Lord.

2 Samuel 12
23 But he is dead now. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? No. I am going where he is, but he won’t come back to me.”
There very reason why K David got up as soon as the child was dead and acted as if nothing had happened is not because David was going to die and become dust like his Child (David is not saying he is going to the grave where he is), it's because K David knew and understood there was a life afterlife, a spiritual life. Hank Hanegraaff is coming out with a book called Life, after Life-after-Live, click on the link <---, which refutes soul sleep. This a terrible and false doctrine of the SDA Church.

Genesis 3:3-4
(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


The terrible doctrine of life after death was originally taught by Satan and is believed by many Christians.

Is that all you got ? Laod?

 

[Dude653]

This is like debating which half of your sandwhich you are going to eat first. Doesnt matter, just enjoy your sandwhich.