Hello :-)

[mhaley4]

Hello Folks ) My name is Mike. I have some questions I'm hoping someone might be interested in discussing with me. I recently received this in an email from a friend:
'propitiation" is all about. It changed the judgement seat of the old testament into the mercy seat of the new testament. Before we had to follow the law. In fact, as gentiles we wouldn't ever have had a chance. But with His death and resurrection we now do; it is so we can make it to Heaven too. No matter how good we are here, we still have the sentence of death on us. Just like being on death row... it doesn't matter how good we are there ... we still are going to get the punishment... unless we get our sentence commuted... but with "commuting" we can still be retried, brought back and executed. But as God's Son, the one man without sin, Jesus was put to death for me and thee, so it is an "Absolute Pardon", the "propitiation". Once we accept Him as Lord and Savior we have forever secured our home in Heaven. We can walk through the Eternal door; without Him, no access...'
I need some help here. At least in part because I do not believe this, not a single shred of it. I'm having a real hard time accepting that God will/would forsake any willing, Spirit guided, God loving person....
Help! Mike

 

[HoldingOn2013]

Lots to discuss here....

Here is my belief;
The Law did not go away by any means. Just because it's in the "Old Testament" it is still very much in force.
We are sinners and will always be sinners. We would never, EVER, be able to enter the grace of God (in heaven) on our own.
Jesus is the only way for us to be made right with God.
Salvation is recognizing our sin, repentance, believing in Jesus with all of our being, asking him for forgiveness, having reverential fear of God and turning to him for everything. Knowing that our works will never get us into heaven....because even on our best days we fall short!
Knowing God loves us all equally and will judge us all equally. One Law, One Judge, One day of sentencing and One eternity.

If believing in Jesus is all it took, then demons would have to have entry into heaven.... ??? Right?
Its believing and because of our faith we turn away from sin. If we don't have real repentance (the one only God can see) then we are just carnal Christians. You know.. the ones that God will spit out of his mouth and say "I never knew you".

 

[mhaley4]

Where do you get this stuff? I'm sure that's an interpretation of some scripture/scriptures but, do you not realize how fanatical those statements are? You may be a sinner but I can assure you, I am not; Not consciously anyway. And furthermore, if we all sin subconsciously, by default because we live & breath, well that's not plausible. In my humble opinion, one of the very greatest gifts of all gifts of God is 'free will'. He gave us this gift - I feel He intends for us to use it, (since we're all free to), as intelligently as possible. Your writing completely wipes it out; unfathomable. And where is the principle 'live & let live' in all that? Treat others as you wish to be treated? Don't you understand that it is just this type of fundamentalist, judgemental, condemming principles that cause people to fight/sin in the first place? I'm not in the least bit concerned with heaven &/or hell. I've been to hell & a truly spiritual person simply does not want to go back to that way of life. The people who do know about any hereafter are dead & they're not talking, (that might be a clue). You know, it's fine that you believe that the way you seem to believe. I don't mind at all. I am completely unaffected by it. I do not believe that God will spit anyone out of his mouth who practices a humility that admits, "I do not know." Thank you for you input....
Mile

 

[HoldingOn2013]

Wow I didn't mean to upset you. I never claim to an expert at anything. I simply believe that we, without Jesus, are nothing. We, on our own, can never expect God to save us. It is free will that allow us to make a change for good, repent and turn from our ways to him. We have the option to "choose life or choose death". Am I wrong? I think you can agree with this statement. WE choose. It is up to us to choose to do the right thing, but we can't without God. Asking the Holy Spirit to help us because without him we can do nothing.

I know I"m weak and do not have the strength I need to fight against what comes against me. I know I need God. I pray in Jesus name and I ask for more of the Holy Spirit because without it I'm going to fail.

Don't get me wrong....I have many struggles. I can't do it alone and I recognize that without God, I'm doomed.

 

[kenisyes]

Hello Folks )
I need some help here. At least in part because I do not believe this, not a single shred of it. I'm having a real hard time accepting that God will/would forsake any willing, Spirit guided, God loving person....
Help! Mike

I would say that it's because He would not forsake any willing, Spirit guided, God loving person, is exactly why He sent Jesus. If you want to open a door, you need the key, and Jesus is the key.

If I read you right, you don't accept that. Okay, do you believe you do not need Jesus? If not, then what other way have you found that God has provided?

May we should get more basic, and ask "provided for what"? Do you believe that there are blessings of God you don't have yet? Do you believe in an afterlife?

Your second post says "you've been to hell and don't want to go back that way". Maybe that means you have done what the Bible calls "repentance", maybe you have found Jesus, and just don't use words the same as we do. Maybe that's why you don't "sin consciously". I can't tell from what has been posted so far. But I'd really like to help if I could.

 

[mhaley4]

Thank you Ken... I posted, "I need some help here," that I might understand you folks better. I believe the 'key' is willingness, faith & trust in God. I don't know for sure about an 'afterlife'. I'm more concerned with the here-&-now; How I live my life today & how it effects others. I don't live in the past & I don't put expectations on plans for the future. Life is what happens while we're 'planning'. I want to live it/am living it. I'm sincerely not sure that anyone needs Jesus any more than they need Muhammad or Buddha. God is the source, not His progenitators. If I understand you, you are saying that all those millions of other people, believing in God, are doomed to hell when they die because they don't worship Jesus as if he were God, or even the son of God. To me this is extraordinarily closed minded, awfully judgmental & pitifully condemning. I don't know about heaven & hell but I don't believe God will forsake those who believe in Him.

 

[Repentionofignorance]

Jesus Christ is God. There are three that bear record in heaven; God the Father, God The Son(Jesus), and God The Holy Spirit

 

[mhaley4]

As I understand it, Jesus was a man

 

[Repentionofignorance]

He is the Son of God, who was born on earth. The virgin Mary gave birth to Him, but the Holy Spirit brought Him there. He is the word of God, and has always been a part of God.

 

[mhaley4]

We're all sons & daughters of God. You can make it out that he was more of a son of God than the rest of us, (not likely), born of a virgin, (physically impossible), & brought here by some divine providence, (perhaps), but it seems to me that these beliefs serve mostly to segregate us as human beings here on earth. I welcome a spirituality that unites us, not separates us further. Again I ask, what about all of the other millions of people in the world that have God but hold near Muhammad, Buddha or countless others. They still believe in & love God. And those that still do not meet the modern criteria of 'civilized' have never heard of Jesus. So, they go to hell when they die...? I cannot accept that. The God of my understanding would not do that to any of His children.

 

[simplepinky06]

hi
im new to this room im hoping i can meet a new christian friends here im 40 f philippines here

 

[Repentionofignorance]

God never sends anyone to hell, it is our sin that does it. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. Believing in Jesus makes us all children with Him. Jesus Christ fulfilled the old testament, and died for our sins, so that we could have everlasting Life with God. Of course, I cannot force these beliefs on you, but this is what I believe in. =)

 

[Repentionofignorance]

hi
im new to this room im hoping i can meet a new christian friends here im 40 f philippines here

Hello =) glad to meet you =)

 

[simplepinky06]

thanks glad to meet you too where you from anyways

 

[Repentionofignorance]

I'm from New York =D

 

[simplepinky06]

hi im new to this room too

 

[Repentionofignorance]

I am very glad to meet you =)

 

[kenisyes]

Thank you Ken... I posted, "I need some help here," that I might understand you folks better. I believe the 'key' is willingness, faith & trust in God. I don't know for sure about an 'afterlife'. I'm more concerned with the here-&-now; How I live my life today & how it effects others. I don't live in the past & I don't put expectations on plans for the future. Life is what happens while we're 'planning'. I want to live it/am living it. I'm sincerely not sure that anyone needs Jesus any more than they need Muhammad or Buddha. God is the source, not His progenitators. If I understand you, you are saying that all those millions of other people, believing in God, are doomed to hell when they die because they don't worship Jesus as if he were God, or even the son of God. To me this is extraordinarily closed minded, awfully judgmental & pitifully condemning. I don't know about heaven & hell but I don't believe God will forsake those who believe in Him.

I'm not saying that (nor did I). I don't know those other people, or what they are going through. I'm not sure your wanting to understand "us folks" will be of much help, as we are as different as anybody else. What we have a is a common and detailed terminology for something teriffic - God and His intervention in the affairs of earth. I know my life is drastically better for knowing Jesus. I can't say what anyone else thinks. I think you've asked quite a few, and they disagree with that - you seem to be one of them who disagree.

I don't really know the answer. Maybe they do know Jesus, maybe you do too, just not by the same words.

I can't prove Jesus was a man, although I think there really was a carpenter by that name 2000 years ago. I can't prove He was crucified, that He rose. But I can prove He makes a difference today, now and for me. I know because I tried it. And that's the problem. Some people are going to say because it worked for them, you have to try it too. But I see your point, it seems to be working without Jesus for lots of people. And that's my problem. I can't see any other way it can work, so I think maybe you folks tried it with some other words. And especially I can't condemn them, because Jesus as I know Him, is so big and so wonderful, that He very likely has found some other way to reach all those people too, and I just don't understand it. That's one of the reasons I want to discuss with you. If He has done this for you, I'd like to learn how, because then I will learn more about how God works than I know now.

So let me ask you, what changed your life? What made you not want to "go back to hell"? Where do you find your motivation to love when people don't deserve it? What do you do when the world seems to hate you? Maybe you'll show me something about God I don't know. I'd love that.

 

[HoldingOn2013]

Hi again

I feel inclined to respond. I have a question... You believe in God, just not in Jesus or an afterlife. What do you believe happens when you die?

I just wonder if you think we (Christians) are foolish/stupid people. I hope you are open to discussing this further in a respectful way. I have to say I will pray that you open up to receiving Jesus.

 

[mhaley4]

Ken,
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate that very much sir. I will describe the best I can what it used to be like, what happened & what it's like now, & articulate to the best of my ability how I feel. I was raised on a farm far out in the country of middle to southern Ohio. I learned very early how to drink, use drugs, lie, cheat, curse, womanize, etc..., from the very best of the 'good ol' boys' there. It seemed great to be carrying on at such an early age, 11-13 years old, with much older boys. I simply could not wait to grow up & be just like them. I got just what I wanted, despite weekly trips to the Baptist Church in town with my grandmother. I have a fundamental foundation of christianity. By the time I was 20 probably I was a full-blown, chronic alcoholic & drug addict, functioning to the best of my ability in a grown-up world with 2 children & a wife that I got pregnant out of wedlock. Our behavior combined doomed the marriage & sent my 2 daughters down the path to substance abuse & chemical dependency as well. I've been divorced for nearly 20 years now & my daughters & I have happily reconciled, (this was one of the 1st miracles of finding a God of my understanding). I had been to rehab for the dope & booze twice before but the 3rd time, in 2000, something was different & something changed, God willing, permanently. For the very 1st time in my life I was desperate as only the drowning/dying can understand. I simply asked for help & God removed the insidious phenomena of 'craving' drugs & alcohol. I've not looked back, God is still with me & I have never, never ever been so content, happy, joyous & free. My children love me, I've re-earned the respect, trust & love of my parents & am an active member of Alcoholic's Anonymous. During my 2nd year of sobriety I attended university & procured an Associate's Degree in Social Science. I was hired as a clinician at the very treatment facility that provided me service in 2000. I was a drug & alcohol counselor there for nearly 5 years. I pray daily. I do a morning meditation & thank God constantly, just for being allowed to breath. I should not even be alive. I feel sometimes that if I really got what I deserved in this life I would either be dead from drink or still in prison for all the drugs I peddled. But God has another notion, apparently. I'm still kickin' & love God for letting me live. My thoughts have become a constant prayer of thanks to God for His divine provenance. Not all the time; But much of it as I live alone & spend a lot of time with myself only to converse, (I keep very bad company that way . So, truly, I don't know about life after death, Jesus or any religious dogma. I only know that God saved me, my life has changed in countless ways, miracles of human relationships have occurred & continue to occur, & I don't know how to be more happy. Sometimes, still, nearly 14 years into sobriety, I wake up giddy. I'll laugh out loud I'm not just 'coming to' & that I'm actually well rested & ready to take on another day. Whatever makes the grasses grow & the winds blow - That's God. For me it's just that simple. I don't feel that I really need to know anything else & cannot complicate it with any religion. It was a sort of 'Spiritual Awakening' of an educational variety that happened to me I believe. I am grateful.
Thank you for taking the time to write to me Ken,
Mike