31 SIGNS YOU MIGHT BE APOSTATE (Check your spiritual pulse.)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
LightShinesInTheDarkness

LightShinesInTheDarkness

Senior Member
#121
Dec 11, 2017
192
6
0
#121
Angela53510 said:
I certainly came here to escape the tirades, nonsense and legalism, to say nothing of the #37 post that has been revived in the BDF, and I’m disappointed to find this kind of post here, too! Unless, as P4T noted, there really is no Scripture in the OP. Hence no Biblical basis for posting in the BDF! (Not that it has ever stopped anyone before!)

So here are some important words from Jesus, that you obviously forgot. I didn’t see hide nor hair of any hint of what Jesus says he will judge us by! I would just quote this, and leave it at that. And no more personal revelations. Kind of a thing I can’t stand!

”When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt 25:31-46

Who are the righteous? Those who care for the hungry, thirsty, naked, sick and in prison! Interesting perspective, isn’t it?
Click to expand...
That passage from Matthew is about the final judgment. That's not what 1 Peter 4:17 is referring to. The word "judgment" is used in many places in the Bible (the NT specifically for this subject), and it doesn't always refer to the Day of Judgment (Final Judgment), on which the Lord will condemn the unsaved and the saints will be rewarded (or lose rewards).

God judged Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit. He judged those brothers in 1 Corinthians 11:27-33 for partaking of the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner. God will be pouring out judgments of His wrath on the unsaved during the Tribulation (but these judgments are also not what 1 Peter 4:17 is referring to).

He judges people in various ways and with various outcomes; so knowing what and what manner of "judgment" the word is referring to is imperative for a correct understanding of the scriptures.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31)

Maybe you should revisit this scripture and find out what it means.

(If your love for God is perfect---and this does NOT mean that you never sin, as I explained in a previous post on this thread about the definition of apostasy---you shouldn't be afraid to die. If you are afraid, and you're truly born-again, there's something wrong in your walk with the Lord that you need to address. You should be looking forward to leaving the body, not afraid to. If you don't have a good conscience toward God for some reason, you will be afraid. So are you afraid? Don't answer me; just be honest with yourself and with the Lord, and if you are afraid, do whatever you need to do to heal what is lame with His help. God's grace is available to you. You have choices.)


 
LightShinesInTheDarkness

LightShinesInTheDarkness

Senior Member
#123
Dec 11, 2017
192
6
0
#123
preacher4truth said:
Your problem is seeing goats as sheep, and trying to make them obey accordingly.

Did you read the book I linked to above? It's short and it's good. You should read it.
Click to expand...
Disobedient sheep can behave like goats. Do true Christians sin? Of course. Do they sometimes persist in doing something they know God doesn't want them to do even though they know it's wrong or not His will? Yes.

Christians still have the sinful nature; it's not eradicated when we get saved, and it's no less depraved in a Christian than it is in an unsaved person. We just have the God-given desire and power (grace) to overcome it's desires. But no one does this perfectly all the time. And just because the Holy Spirit lives in a person, doesn't mean he or she can't choose not to listen to or keep in step with Him. That doesn't mean that he or she isn't saved.

If the person has the Holy Spirit living in them, they're saved (a Christian).
(That doesn't necessarily mean they will stay saved, but that's their choice and God's judgment to make. As long as the Holy Spirit is in them, they're saved, regardless of how they are choosing to behave.)

Can Christians lie, murder, steal, commit adultery (in the mind or the flesh), be proud, jealous, hypocritical, covetous, etc.? Of course. They shouldn't, but they certainly have the capability to, and some choose to do so. That doesn't mean that they are goats.

There are some goats who behave better than some sheep! They're not justified in God's sight of course, and they're not going to heaven; but their outward behavior can be better than the behavior of a disobedient Christian.

(It's bizarre to me how folks can accuse me of preaching sinless perfection on the one hand, and then when I talk about Christians stubbornly refusing to obey God in one way or the other, they say that true Christians can't choose to persist in sin. Well, they can. That passage from Hebrews 10 that I included in my last post says as much, and other scriptures agree. Besides the fact being self-evident to any Christian who's honest. You can show a brother his fault, but there's no guarantee he'll listen to you. He might choose to repent; he might not.)

And that's not the same situation as a person who claims to have been born again but whose character and conduct don't change as a result of their supposed conversion. There are plenty of them too, but my business isn't with them.

It's not always easy to know who is who and what's what, especially if you don't know the person personally and spend time with them and talk to them.

I don't make it my business to be preoccupied with who is a goat and who is a sheep; the sheep know I'm talking to them.


 
LightShinesInTheDarkness

LightShinesInTheDarkness

Senior Member
#124
Dec 11, 2017
192
6
0
#124
johnthebaptist said:
Are we called to point out apostates or to encourage the saved?
Click to expand...
Both.

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20)

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. (Hebrews 3:12,13)
 
M

mj007

Banned
#125
Feb 5, 2017
1,118
36
0
#125
I think it is more a matter of your own relationship with God, pointing out to yourself what is apostate and can be improved, and encouraging your own walk to be better aligned to God.

If nothing needs changing, or if you think we are made of stone and are never changing, that nothing ever changes, and basically you are perfect the way you are, then what is to stop you falling short?

It is easier to go 1 steps backwards, than 1 steps forward. Even allowing others to have their truth and them allowing you to have your truth, and somehow LEARNING at least something from each other, is a step forward (the harder step). But when resisting what people say and trying to correct them or tell them they are wrong, or accusing them, no-one learns anything, and it's a step backwards for you, and it is a step backwards for them if they allow you to influence them in a negative way.

Anyone who says anything with a lot of effort and thought, seems to attract these people who try to tell them they are wrong or correct them. But instead, if you see it as some battle for truth, share your truth with as much passion and confidence, not arrogance, in what you are saying. And don't confuse modesty with arrogance.

Debating is sharing, arguing is condemning.


johnthebaptist said:
Are we called to point out apostates or to encourage the saved?
Click to expand...
 
johnthebaptist

johnthebaptist

Banned
#126
Jan 3, 2018
58
2
0
#126
mj007 said:
I think it is more a matter of your own relationship with God, pointing out to yourself what is apostate and can be improved, and encouraging your own walk to be better aligned to God.

If nothing needs changing, or if you think we are made of stone and are never changing, that nothing ever changes, and basically you are perfect the way you are, then what is to stop you falling short?

It is easier to go 1 steps backwards, than 1 steps forward. Even allowing others to have their truth and them allowing you to have your truth, and somehow LEARNING at least something from each other, is a step forward (the harder step). But when resisting what people say and trying to correct them or tell them they are wrong, or accusing them, no-one learns anything, and it's a step backwards for you, and it is a step backwards for them if they allow you to influence them in a negative way.

Anyone who says anything with a lot of effort and thought, seems to attract these people who try to tell them they are wrong or correct them. But instead, if you see it as some battle for truth, share your truth with as much passion and confidence, not arrogance, in what you are saying. And don't confuse modesty with arrogance.

Debating is sharing, arguing is condemning.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for your response.

This brings to mind can we become apostate, or are we always in some ways
far from the truth and in Christ walking towards it, which we need encouragement
in.

I have become discouraged how apostate many have become who I thought previously
were brothers and sisters in Christ, running after spiritual baubles.

I have though seen people grow closer to Christ by good exergisis and loving example,
for which I praise God.

The apostles were always encouraging the positive, thinking on things that are worthy,
uplifting, worthy of praise, and spending time in prayer.

So I am saying it is there I have seen more fruit than in lists of apostacy etc.
I suppose that is my experience in this matter.
 
LightShinesInTheDarkness

LightShinesInTheDarkness

Senior Member
#127
Dec 11, 2017
192
6
0
#127
mj007 said:
I think it is more a matter of your own relationship with God, pointing out to yourself what is apostate and can be improved, and encouraging your own walk to be better aligned to God.

If nothing needs changing, or if you think we are made of stone and are never changing, that nothing ever changes, and basically you are perfect the way you are, then what is to stop you falling short?

It is easier to go 1 steps backwards, than 1 steps forward. Even allowing others to have their truth and them allowing you to have your truth, and somehow LEARNING at least something from each other, is a step forward (the harder step). But when resisting what people say and trying to correct them or tell them they are wrong, or accusing them, no-one learns anything, and it's a step backwards for you, and it is a step backwards for them if they allow you to influence them in a negative way.

Anyone who says anything with a lot of effort and thought, seems to attract these people who try to tell them they are wrong or correct them. But instead, if you see it as some battle for truth, share your truth with as much passion and confidence, not arrogance, in what you are saying. And don't confuse modesty with arrogance.

Debating is sharing, arguing is condemning.
Click to expand...
It's unfortunate that motives and attitude cannot be as accurately perceived through words on a page as through in-person interaction.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#128
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,996
113
#128
Speak2Me said:
I notice you have a bad habit of saying "you're wrong" without proving it. Reminds me of some people in the Not By Works thread.

Oh, wait, you're in that thread. Go figure.
Click to expand...
You are in that thread, too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.