How Should We Then Live

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Aug 7, 2018
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77
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#1
Subtitle: The Rise and Decline of Western Thought and Culture

by: Francis A. Schaeffer

I just finished this book. To be honest I found it terribly frightening, especially since it was written in 1976.

I was anticipating some ending encouragement, some words that would hold out hope. Instead Schaeffer brings Christ's followers full circle, right back to Imperial Rome watching the final contortions of a doomed society about to plunge headlong into a new Dark Ages. Schaeffer does not believe there will be a similar period of Christian martyrdom for us, we have already sold out to the dual gods of "personal peace" and "affluence". Our end is more prolonged and torturous.

Not a good book for a nation of feel good
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,609
5,263
113
#2
Subtitle: The Rise and Decline of Western Thought and Culture

by: Francis A. Schaeffer

I just finished this book. To be honest I found it terribly frightening, especially since it was written in 1976.

I was anticipating some ending encouragement, some words that would hold out hope. Instead Schaeffer brings Christ's followers full circle, right back to Imperial Rome watching the final contortions of a doomed society about to plunge headlong into a new Dark Ages. Schaeffer does not believe there will be a similar period of Christian martyrdom for us, we have already sold out to the dual gods of "personal peace" and "affluence". Our end is more prolonged and torturous.

Not a good book for a nation of feel good
Do you believe that our end will be more prolonged and torturous?
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#3
Subtitle: The Rise and Decline of Western Thought and Culture

by: Francis A. Schaeffer

I just finished this book. To be honest I found it terribly frightening, especially since it was written in 1976.

I was anticipating some ending encouragement, some words that would hold out hope. Instead Schaeffer brings Christ's followers full circle, right back to Imperial Rome watching the final contortions of a doomed society about to plunge headlong into a new Dark Ages. Schaeffer does not believe there will be a similar period of Christian martyrdom for us, we have already sold out to the dual gods of "personal peace" and "affluence". Our end is more prolonged and torturous.

Not a good book for a nation of feel good
I have found this book very enlightening. If one is looking for feel good, you may have to look for quite awhile.

Quantrill
 
Aug 7, 2018
74
77
18
#4
Do you believe that our end will be more prolonged and torturous?
Yes I believe that is possible. Prolonged as our dissent into darkness may be slow and gradual, loosing our humanity inch by inch. (This has already begun). Orwell's 1984 was off by just a few short years.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
#5
Do you believe that our end will be more prolonged and torturous?
I hope it's a no, but incase if the answer is a yes, ...

you know how during suffering the instinctual reflex of the flesh can make things worse

even though the flesh can help prevent the hand from being more damaged, when the reflex can wince the hand away from a hot stove

we need to somehow fix the flesh and reprogram the flesh somehow, and we know that we fail miserably at that kind of goal (to reprogram the flesh), we underestimate the reflex of the flesh, overestimate methods of self-control, etc.
 
Aug 7, 2018
74
77
18
#6
Our cell may be softer and the threats we face something other than a rat in an open ended cage, but the pressure to surrender our values are building to that same end. The book illustrates this much better than I.

Schaeffer reminds us of the causes of the fall of Rome; a mounting love of luxury, widening gap between rich and poor, an obsession with sex, freakish arts and the increasing dependence on the state. He then leads the reader through the Dark Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation and the Enlightenment up to modern America, all from a Christian viewpoint. In the end we are right back in Rome where the blame for it's problems were placed on the head of Christians.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,438
275
83
#7
I havn't read that book, but the title, the decline in thought and culture, is very provokinly honestly truthful. God's Love has been around way long, and even in the garden, through old and new Testaments, and is a light unto us today. Though the culture and times, dark ages, peep around the corner, were to renew our minds, in Christ. The bible says, the carnal mind is death. A personal death in the spirit, for the Lord says, I have come that they might have life, and life more abundently. The wages of sin is death. If we look inward, and not always the things that we do ourwardly, sin brings a spiritual fall, just as Adam n EVe, in disobeying God's commands. We sometimes act, right on the outside, but unforgivness, pride, even fear is sin. REvelation, says, the fearful, and the filty have their place in the lake of fire. There are so many things within, that cause seperation from God. The inward darkness.
 
Aug 7, 2018
74
77
18
#8
I havn't read that book, but the title, the decline in thought and culture, is very provokinly honestly truthful. God's Love has been around way long, and even in the garden, through old and new Testaments, and is a light unto us today. Though the culture and times, dark ages, peep around the corner, were to renew our minds, in Christ. The bible says, the carnal mind is death. A personal death in the spirit, for the Lord says, I have come that they might have life, and life more abundently. The wages of sin is death. If we look inward, and not always the things that we do ourwardly, sin brings a spiritual fall, just as Adam n EVe, in disobeying God's commands. We sometimes act, right on the outside, but unforgivness, pride, even fear is sin. REvelation, says, the fearful, and the filty have their place in the lake of fire. There are so many things within, that cause seperation from God. The inward darkness.

Your GIF is a perfect bookend to a poem I posted several weeks ago in the POETRY forum. :

We pass them, majestic;
Towering above everything near,
Hardly noting their existence,
Despite their enormity.

They stand for years,
More than a century witness,
To seasons and change,
Older than memory.

They spring from tiny seed,
That floats for miles on a breath of breeze,
Lighter than a wish, delicate as hope,
Cast out to abide in faith and trust.

Yet they speak, clear and sure,
The quite sound of disturbed surf,
Or of a great storm far off, just now within hearing,
While a thousand hands are waving, clapping, joyous.

But pray hear, God speaks from trees.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,810
5,644
113
73
#9
Yes I believe that is possible. Prolonged as our dissent into darkness may be slow and gradual, loosing our humanity inch by inch. (This has already begun). Orwell's 1984 was off by just a few short years.
Yes Seeker, we in the West are in trouble. We have called on the name of Christ while founding our country. That has brought many material blessings. But looking around today, we have fallen away from that Judeo-Christian morality. Judgment, no doubt, is on the way.

Hos. 4:1-6
"Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." :(
 
Aug 7, 2018
74
77
18
#10
Yes Seeker, we in the West are in trouble. We have called on the name of Christ while founding our country. That has brought many material blessings. But looking around today, we have fallen away from that Judeo-Christian morality. Judgment, no doubt, is on the way.

Hos. 4:1-6 "Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." :(
...And a sad Amen.....
 
Aug 7, 2018
74
77
18
#11
...And a sad Amen.....
The moment I posted by first reply I knew I was in error. Ours is not to say a sad "Amen" even though it looks like that is the proper response, ours is to speak up more loudly still against the things that draw us away from the truth. We may have lost the culture war here in the west (Has Christianity ever won against the world?) but as those who spoke out before, our voices of praise should ring even louder. I forgot for a moment who has the ultimate victory, for that I ask forgiveness.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,438
275
83
#12
Yes Seeker, we in the West are in trouble. We have called on the name of Christ while founding our country. That has brought many material blessings. But looking around today, we have fallen away from that Judeo-Christian morality. Judgment, no doubt, is on the way.

Hos. 4:1-6 "Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." :(
I kind of forgot this scripture in Hosea. This is why it is important to read the word. I believe it is the inspired word of the Lord, as the HOly Spirit brings scripture to mind, the good word, the good words. This scripture popped into my spirit today. Wait upon the Lord, and be of good courage. bv. One would say, good courage of what? discouragement is not good. The rest of it says, "and he will strengthen thy heart. " Hosea 4 sounds like a very harsh sentence. But, a Loving God, and FAther, Creator, knows what's best for the human race. He dosn't want any one to perish. We can not play games with an Almighty God.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,438
275
83
#13
Your GIF is a perfect bookend to a poem I posted several weeks ago in the POETRY forum. :

We pass them, majestic;
Towering above everything near,
Hardly noting their existence,
Despite their enormity.

They stand for years,
More than a century witness,
To seasons and change,
Older than memory.

They spring from tiny seed,
That floats for miles on a breath of breeze,
Lighter than a wish, delicate as hope,
Cast out to abide in faith and trust.

Yet they speak, clear and sure,
The quite sound of disturbed surf,
Or of a great storm far off, just now within hearing,
While a thousand hands are waving, clapping, joyous.

But pray hear, God speaks from trees.
Thank you for the post of the gif. Every thing designed , and created by God, is good, and probably within everything are secrets. But, fall is over, and I might post a gif of Winter.
 

Poinsetta

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2018
2,514
1,356
113
#14
I havn't read that book, but the title, the decline in thought and culture, is very provokinly honestly [truthful] or (([[hurtful]]))
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#15
Subtitle: The Rise and Decline of Western Thought and Culture

by: Francis A. Schaeffer

I just finished this book. To be honest I found it terribly frightening, especially since it was written in 1976.

I was anticipating some ending encouragement, some words that would hold out hope. Instead Schaeffer brings Christ's followers full circle, right back to Imperial Rome watching the final contortions of a doomed society about to plunge headlong into a new Dark Ages. Schaeffer does not believe there will be a similar period of Christian martyrdom for us, we have already sold out to the dual gods of "personal peace" and "affluence". Our end is more prolonged and torturous.

Not a good book for a nation of feel good
There is nothing new under the sun?
Are we just repeating history.
This is a ten part series of the book.
 
Aug 2, 2009
22,634
2,415
113
#16
I havn't read that book, but the title, the decline in thought and culture, is very provokinly honestly truthful. God's Love has been around way long, and even in the garden, through old and new Testaments, and is a light unto us today. Though the culture and times, dark ages, peep around the corner, were to renew our minds, in Christ. The bible says, the carnal mind is death. A personal death in the spirit, for the Lord says, I have come that they might have life, and life more abundently. The wages of sin is death. If we look inward, and not always the things that we do ourwardly, sin brings a spiritual fall, just as Adam n EVe, in disobeying God's commands. We sometimes act, right on the outside, but unforgivness, pride, even fear is sin. REvelation, says, the fearful, and the filty have their place in the lake of fire. There are so many things within, that cause seperation from God. The inward darkness.
I agree. And I LOVE that snow falling in your signature. It's so pretty!! :love:
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,199
5,816
113
53
#20
Yes I believe that is possible. Prolonged as our dissent into darkness may be slow and gradual, loosing our humanity inch by inch. (This has already begun). Orwell's 1984 was off by just a few short years.
1984 was a great year! That was the year I graduated from high school. :) Our society is so much worse now than it was in 1984. :(