The Church in America - A Call for Prayer

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Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#1
Something has bothered me for a long time, an uneasiness that refuses to resolve. This may prove controversial and not everyone will agree or support these thoughts. That’s OK, here goes anyway.

The internet has allowed me to research and read hundreds of Vision and Mission statements from American Churches nationwide. Life changes and career moves also provided first-hand knowledge from local churches and denominations. With very few exceptions they follow Mathew 28:19 and allude or directly quote the “Great Commission”:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit…”

The Master spoke these words to all eleven of the Disciples who were gathered on a mountainside. He then ascended into Heaven.
His instructions are clear, direct and easily understood, this is what he wanted his disciples to accomplish. He commands this of all his Disciples, those then and those now. Please be sure, nothing here adds or subtracts anything from those words.

But we need look also at His instructions in John 21:15-17 given on an ancient beach after a breakfast of fresh caught fish. Christ turns specifically to Simon and tells him three times to “Feed my sheep”. This is the same Simon that Jesus renamed Peter and pledged he would be the rock upon which He would build His church (Matt 16:18). Here Jesus speaks specifically and directly to Peter, giving him instructions that are clear, direct and easily understood.

Do you see an issue here?

All churches should not be soup kitchens, as honorable as that would be. Nor should churches stop supporting outreach and missions, these too pursue God’s plan. But neither should the church ministry be solely outreach and growth; trouble hides there.

Every Christian who enters through a church door is hungry; looking to be fed. They are hungry every time they enter, yet even those hungers change over time and chance. Modern churches have few mechanisms in place to seek out and define these new hungers. While we surround the new attendee for a while, do we forget about the widow or orphan who continue to stagger through? In my experience the answer is sadly, yes.

Several of the churches I have experienced are in a death spin-cycle. They desperately work to attract new people. New music, gymnasiums, cafés, charismatic speakers and programs, all these drain church budgets and place them in a grow-or-die financial crisis. This they call outreach, while the widow and orphan, the sinner, newly divorced, confused, lonely and broken-hearted sit hungry and alone.
The American Church is rapidly attending to the course that our Western European brothers have followed. The end is empty cathedrals and irrelevance.

Even so, Christ’s Church goes on elsewhere in homes and tents and caves and huts, feeding those who are hungry, this church will not fail. Our American crisis will only resolve when we are willing to take a hard look at what we have become.

This is in the end, a call to prayer for our churches that slip steadily toward an uncertain future.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,228
6,526
113
#2
It would be a good idea for all to know all the flags of the nations belong to our Father.

What you describe of churches and denominations of Christianity in the US has been on-going since my childhoot in the 40's and 50's. Only in those days it was perfectly acceptable to preach against blacs and Jews from the pulpits of many denominations, and I attended them and heard them myself.

So many who claim to be Christians also claim to be good citizens, but these same people also tout how America, the US that is, was founded as Christian.

That thought cannot be farther from the content of the US Constitusion.. There is a guarantee in the Constitution of freedom of relition, which includes folks who are not yet decided on any religion.

So many confuse or simply ignore the Preambe to the Declaration of Independence, the Declaration itself, and the Consitution.

Do not fall into that horrible error of making the US a vassal of Pharisees nationwide.

What I have posted is true, and what those who say the US was founded on Christianity are simp0ly ignoring the easy truthof the above cited documents.

Look at the people in high places of power today, and you will see, many are not friends of Jesus Christ neither do they embrace His teachings. Actually The left wing would be closest to Jesus Christ were it not for their denial of Him

Let us do all we are able to be like Jesus Christ following His example, and do not think the US is above other countries in Christ……...I have brethren contacts all over the world and many of them are in countries you would never believe..right, therere is only one country for so many of you……..all mankind is loved by God andHis children.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,817
25,993
113
#3
… But we need look also at His instructions in John 21:15-17 given on an ancient beach after a breakfast of fresh caught fish. Christ turns specifically to Simon and tells him three times to “Feed my sheep”. This is the same Simon that Jesus renamed Peter and pledged he would be the rock upon which He would build His church (Matt 16:18). Here Jesus speaks specifically and directly to Peter, giving him instructions that are clear, direct and easily understood.

Do you see an issue here?

All churches should not be soup kitchens, as honorable as that would be. Nor should churches stop supporting outreach and missions, these too pursue God’s plan. But neither should the church ministry be solely outreach and growth; trouble hides there.
Do you think Jesus was speaking of physical food? I always took it to mean Spiritual food/sustenance :) Jesus is the Bread of Life.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#4
I believe it was both physical and spiritual. In both cases the focus is on those who belong to Christ.

In my reading from the Book of Acts Peter clearly addresses both physical and spiritual hunger. After tending to those in his care he then supported outreach. (At least that is my humble understanding).
 
L

LPT

Guest
#5
Something has bothered me for a long time, an uneasiness that refuses to resolve. This may prove controversial and not everyone will agree or support these thoughts. That’s OK, here goes anyway.

The internet has allowed me to research and read hundreds of Vision and Mission statements from American Churches nationwide. Life changes and career moves also provided first-hand knowledge from local churches and denominations. With very few exceptions they follow Mathew 28:19 and allude or directly quote the “Great Commission”:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit…”

The Master spoke these words to all eleven of the Disciples who were gathered on a mountainside. He then ascended into Heaven.
His instructions are clear, direct and easily understood, this is what he wanted his disciples to accomplish. He commands this of all his Disciples, those then and those now. Please be sure, nothing here adds or subtracts anything from those words.

But we need look also at His instructions in John 21:15-17 given on an ancient beach after a breakfast of fresh caught fish. Christ turns specifically to Simon and tells him three times to “Feed my sheep”. This is the same Simon that Jesus renamed Peter and pledged he would be the rock upon which He would build His church (Matt 16:18). Here Jesus speaks specifically and directly to Peter, giving him instructions that are clear, direct and easily understood.

Do you see an issue here?

All churches should not be soup kitchens, as honorable as that would be. Nor should churches stop supporting outreach and missions, these too pursue God’s plan. But neither should the church ministry be solely outreach and growth; trouble hides there.

Every Christian who enters through a church door is hungry; looking to be fed. They are hungry every time they enter, yet even those hungers change over time and chance. Modern churches have few mechanisms in place to seek out and define these new hungers. While we surround the new attendee for a while, do we forget about the widow or orphan who continue to stagger through? In my experience the answer is sadly, yes.

Several of the churches I have experienced are in a death spin-cycle. They desperately work to attract new people. New music, gymnasiums, cafés, charismatic speakers and programs, all these drain church budgets and place them in a grow-or-die financial crisis. This they call outreach, while the widow and orphan, the sinner, newly divorced, confused, lonely and broken-hearted sit hungry and alone.
The American Church is rapidly attending to the course that our Western European brothers have followed. The end is empty cathedrals and irrelevance.

Even so, Christ’s Church goes on elsewhere in homes and tents and caves and huts, feeding those who are hungry, this church will not fail. Our American crisis will only resolve when we are willing to take a hard look at what we have become.

This is in the end, a call to prayer for our churches that slip steadily toward an uncertain future.
Probably those churches don't last that long from 2006 to 2012 roughly 30,000 shut their doors, it's leveled off to around 384,000.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#6
When you look at statistics it is pretty scary. Here's more: From 2007 to 2014 Americans who claim to be Christian declined by 7.8%. Those who claim non-Christian faith rose 1.2% (probably immigration). Those who claim to be unaffiliated with any faith rose by 6.7%. In my parents generation 85% of Americans claimed to be Christian, in my children's generation only 56% claim Christianity.

Where are we missing the boat?
 
L

LPT

Guest
#7
When you look at statistics it is pretty scary. Here's more: From 2007 to 2014 Americans who claim to be Christian declined by 7.8%. Those who claim non-Christian faith rose 1.2% (probably immigration). Those who claim to be unaffiliated with any faith rose by 6.7%. In my parents generation 85% of Americans claimed to be Christian, in my children's generation only 56% claim Christianity.

Where are we missing the boat?
It's not all gloomy,

It's been reported also that increasing numbers of young people are becoming Christians in several countries. It's been also reported that conversion into Christianity is significantly increasing among Korean,Chinese, and Japanese in the United States. By 2012 percentage of Christians on mentioned communities was 71%, more than 30% and 37%, respectively. In 2010 there were approximately 180,000 Arab Americans and about 130,000 Iranian Americans who converted from Islam to Christianity, Studies estimated approximately that 20,000 Muslims convert to Christianity annually in the United States. According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, between 1965 and 1985 about 2.5 million Indonesian converted from Islam to Christianity. Many people who convert to Christianity face persecution.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#8
Something has bothered me for a long time, an uneasiness that refuses to resolve. This may prove controversial and not everyone will agree or support these thoughts. That’s OK, here goes anyway.

The internet has allowed me to research and read hundreds of Vision and Mission statements from American Churches nationwide. Life changes and career moves also provided first-hand knowledge from local churches and denominations. With very few exceptions they follow Mathew 28:19 and allude or directly quote the “Great Commission”:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit…”

The Master spoke these words to all eleven of the Disciples who were gathered on a mountainside. He then ascended into Heaven.
His instructions are clear, direct and easily understood, this is what he wanted his disciples to accomplish. He commands this of all his Disciples, those then and those now. Please be sure, nothing here adds or subtracts anything from those words.

But we need look also at His instructions in John 21:15-17 given on an ancient beach after a breakfast of fresh caught fish. Christ turns specifically to Simon and tells him three times to “Feed my sheep”. This is the same Simon that Jesus renamed Peter and pledged he would be the rock upon which He would build His church (Matt 16:18). Here Jesus speaks specifically and directly to Peter, giving him instructions that are clear, direct and easily understood.

Do you see an issue here?

All churches should not be soup kitchens, as honorable as that would be. Nor should churches stop supporting outreach and missions, these too pursue God’s plan. But neither should the church ministry be solely outreach and growth; trouble hides there.

Every Christian who enters through a church door is hungry; looking to be fed. They are hungry every time they enter, yet even those hungers change over time and chance. Modern churches have few mechanisms in place to seek out and define these new hungers. While we surround the new attendee for a while, do we forget about the widow or orphan who continue to stagger through? In my experience the answer is sadly, yes.

Several of the churches I have experienced are in a death spin-cycle. They desperately work to attract new people. New music, gymnasiums, cafés, charismatic speakers and programs, all these drain church budgets and place them in a grow-or-die financial crisis. This they call outreach, while the widow and orphan, the sinner, newly divorced, confused, lonely and broken-hearted sit hungry and alone.
The American Church is rapidly attending to the course that our Western European brothers have followed. The end is empty cathedrals and irrelevance.

Even so, Christ’s Church goes on elsewhere in homes and tents and caves and huts, feeding those who are hungry, this church will not fail. Our American crisis will only resolve when we are willing to take a hard look at what we have become.

This is in the end, a call to prayer for our churches that slip steadily toward an uncertain future.
Jesus did not build His church on Peter, but upon Himself.
Peter would have been a faulty foundation for anything to be built on.
His many failures are recorded in Scriptures.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#9
It's not all gloomy,

It's been reported also that increasing numbers of young people are becoming Christians in several countries. It's been also reported that conversion into Christianity is significantly increasing among Korean,Chinese, and Japanese in the United States. By 2012 percentage of Christians on mentioned communities was 71%, more than 30% and 37%, respectively. In 2010 there were approximately 180,000 Arab Americans and about 130,000 Iranian Americans who converted from Islam to Christianity, Studies estimated approximately that 20,000 Muslims convert to Christianity annually in the United States. According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, between 1965 and 1985 about 2.5 million Indonesian converted from Islam to Christianity. Many people who convert to Christianity face persecution.
I think that is the point I tried unsuccessfully to make. Why are these Churches growing while American Churches fail. This is the debate we need to have.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#10
I think that is the point I tried unsuccessfully to make. Why are these Churches growing while American Churches fail. This is the debate we need to have.
I get what you mean now, yea some call it the worship wars, traditional vs contemporary. though it seems the contemporary style kind of comes and goes. nonetheless there is a battle between the more traditional style of churhes and those new styles popping up. it's probably because many folks who attend those contemporary realize its just flattery and go back to a more traditional styles

in the last couple of yrs I've read there's been a decline in the contemporary churches.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#11
Those contemporary churches are doing something that is causing issues, like people don't feel convicted self reflect. If a church preaching happy go lucky and all kinds of cool things to do then where's the conviction the message. a traditional church should make the person attending think about what their doing rather then walking out with smiles on their faces isn't helping anyone. I'm speaking about like the Joel olsteen style.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#12
Jesus did not build His church on Peter, but upon Himself.
Peter would have been a faulty foundation for anything to be built on.
His many failures are recorded in Scriptures.
I get what you mean no Peter wasn't a pope, though Jesus used Peter to build his church he did preach to the Gentiles and Jews. And at one time peter's own shadow would heal the sick so indeed Peter had a purpose.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,817
25,993
113
#13
I get what you mean no Peter wasn't a pope, though Jesus used Peter to build his church he did preach to the Gentiles and Jews. And at one time peter's own shadow would heal the sick so indeed Peter had a purpose.
The Roman Catholic position is that Jesus builds His church upon Peter, while the protestant position is that Jesus Himself is the Rock upon Whom the church is built... the church being those who confess Jesus as Lord.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#14
The Roman Catholic position is that Jesus builds His church upon Peter, while the protestant position is that Jesus Himself is the Rock upon Whom the church is built... the church being those who confess Jesus as Lord.
I believe Peter confessed Jesus as Lord, but that doesn't mean I agree with what the roman catholic's have done.
 
Sep 27, 2018
55
55
18
Ohio
#15
Something has bothered me for a long time, an uneasiness that refuses to resolve. This may prove controversial and not everyone will agree or support these thoughts. That’s OK, here goes anyway.

The internet has allowed me to research and read hundreds of Vision and Mission statements from American Churches nationwide. Life changes and career moves also provided first-hand knowledge from local churches and denominations. With very few exceptions they follow Mathew 28:19 and allude or directly quote the “Great Commission”:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit…”

The Master spoke these words to all eleven of the Disciples who were gathered on a mountainside. He then ascended into Heaven.
His instructions are clear, direct and easily understood, this is what he wanted his disciples to accomplish. He commands this of all his Disciples, those then and those now. Please be sure, nothing here adds or subtracts anything from those words.

But we need look also at His instructions in John 21:15-17 given on an ancient beach after a breakfast of fresh caught fish. Christ turns specifically to Simon and tells him three times to “Feed my sheep”. This is the same Simon that Jesus renamed Peter and pledged he would be the rock upon which He would build His church (Matt 16:18). Here Jesus speaks specifically and directly to Peter, giving him instructions that are clear, direct and easily understood.

Do you see an issue here?

All churches should not be soup kitchens, as honorable as that would be. Nor should churches stop supporting outreach and missions, these too pursue God’s plan. But neither should the church ministry be solely outreach and growth; trouble hides there.

Every Christian who enters through a church door is hungry; looking to be fed. They are hungry every time they enter, yet even those hungers change over time and chance. Modern churches have few mechanisms in place to seek out and define these new hungers. While we surround the new attendee for a while, do we forget about the widow or orphan who continue to stagger through? In my experience the answer is sadly, yes.

Several of the churches I have experienced are in a death spin-cycle. They desperately work to attract new people. New music, gymnasiums, cafés, charismatic speakers and programs, all these drain church budgets and place them in a grow-or-die financial crisis. This they call outreach, while the widow and orphan, the sinner, newly divorced, confused, lonely and broken-hearted sit hungry and alone.
The American Church is rapidly attending to the course that our Western European brothers have followed. The end is empty cathedrals and irrelevance.

Even so, Christ’s Church goes on elsewhere in homes and tents and caves and huts, feeding those who are hungry, this church will not fail. Our American crisis will only resolve when we are willing to take a hard look at what we have become.

This is in the end, a call to prayer for our churches that slip steadily toward an uncertain future.
Amen!! I recently left my church of two years because of this right here. They were so proud of being a “great commission church” but they did not tend to and protect their flock. My brother has mental health issues and needs lots of help as he goes in and out of homelessness and can’t keep a job. I begged my church for help and they refused me so I left without looking back. It’s heartbreaking. It’s coutnerfeit. I’m praying to be plugged into the genuine body of Christ now... which I know only God can bring me too as I highly doubt it is at any church institutions. Every church I’ve been to (4 or 5) have been the same. They aren’t God’s hands and feet. They only use God and “church” as a means of upward mobility. It’s disgusting.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,034
13,041
113
58
#16
Do you think Jesus was speaking of physical food? I always took it to mean Spiritual food/sustenance :) Jesus is the Bread of Life.
Jesus is the Bread of Life. Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life. :)
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#17
Amen!! I recently left my church of two years because of this right here. They were so proud of being a “great commission church” but they did not tend to and protect their flock. My brother has mental health issues and needs lots of help as he goes in and out of homelessness and can’t keep a job. I begged my church for help and they refused me so I left without looking back. It’s heartbreaking. It’s coutnerfeit. I’m praying to be plugged into the genuine body of Christ now... which I know only God can bring me too as I highly doubt it is at any church institutions. Every church I’ve been to (4 or 5) have been the same. They aren’t God’s hands and feet. They only use God and “church” as a means of upward mobility. It’s disgusting.
I think there are genuine Christian Churches out there but they don't appear to be the ones with big buildings, big congregations or gymnasiums. I find Christ in small churches and small groups but it takes searching to locate them. We can encounter Christ anywhere and at any time, he did not call the first disciples from a pulpit but in relationships and personal encounters. I Seek but don't rely on any church to help me encounter Jesus.
 
Sep 27, 2018
55
55
18
Ohio
#18
I think there are genuine Christian Churches out there but they don't appear to be the ones with big buildings, big congregations or gymnasiums. I find Christ in small churches and small groups but it takes searching to locate them. We can encounter Christ anywhere and at any time, he did not call the first disciples from a pulpit but in relationships and personal encounters. I Seek but don't rely on any church to help me encounter Jesus.
Why don’t you rely on any church to help you encounter Jesus?
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
989
837
93
#19
Why don’t you rely on any church to help you encounter Jesus?
I am a long-term Christian who has attended church most of my adult life. In MY experience the church is a human institution and as such is as much subject to error as any human institution. (I know who founded the Church and I know who runs it today, that is a separate issue). I have seen too many people turned away and turned-off by the power plays and politics.

I still attend and support my Church but my primary area of growth and my primary expression of faith is outside. I study the bible constantly and do not accept what anyone tells me until I look for myself. I read, mostly classic Christian authors, those who's works have stood the test of time and fashion. Finally, maybe most importantly, I believe God cries out to us from his creation. He speaks through nature and through existence and through those we meet if we take the time to listen. If someone goes to church regularly and stops there (many do), I fear they miss out.