Why do people on this site hate the Catholic Church?

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B

Bede

Guest
I gave the OP a list of practices of the RCC so that he/she could show scriptural verification for them.... I've heard nothing but crickets. Just 3 or 4 things... If we are going to debate the validity of the RCC, we should rely on scripture, don't you think? Opinions, or rumors, or tribal knowledge should not be used. Scripture.

Again, the smell of troll is strong here....
Yes, plenty of trolls.

Lynx said earlier "We are not here to debate this (yet again.) We are here on this forum to hang out and chat. There are other forums for debating."
Well I haven't seem much "chat" - just trolls and ignorant anti-Catholics abusing myelf and my Church.
 
B

Bede

Guest
To defend your belief. Quite a few topics to pick from in that thread. Foundation attacks can be uncomfortable I understand by your hesitation to defend your beliefs. But that is the burden for the search of truth. Having the courage to face what is false within and the honesty to admit it. It goes beyond that though. Once admitted we must adopt what is true. I think honestly one must ask if the Bible canon of 66 books is the inspired Word of God because if so then if a belief or tradition isn't Biblical we can automatically rule it out.
I have no hesitation defending my beliefs.
I'm waiting for you to pick a topic and start a thread on it.
 
B

Bede

Guest
Explain this heresy. Mary is NOT a co-redemptrix.
The Catholic Church does not teach that Mary is a co-redemtrix

Our local catholic church has a statue similar to THIS one.

Here is the Scripture that states JESUS is the one who crushes the serpent's(Satan) head:
Genesis 3:15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise HIS Heel"
View attachment 213372
The RSVCE version has this footnote to Gen 3:15
  • 3.15 he shall bruise your head: i.e., the seed of the woman, that is, mankind descended from Eve, will eventually gain the victory over the powers of evil. This victory will, of course, be gained through the work of the Messiah who is par excellence the seed of the woman. The Latin Vulgate has the reading ipsa conteret, “she shall bruise.” Some Old Latin manuscripts have this reading and it occurs also in St. Augustine, De Genesi contra Manichaeos, II, which is earlier than St. Jerome’s translation. It could be due originally to a copyist’s mistake, which was then seen to contain a genuine meaning—namely, that Mary, too, would have her share in the victory, inasmuch as she was mother of the Savior.
 
B

Bede

Guest
The RSVCE version has this footnote to Gen 3:15
  • 3.15 he shall bruise your head: i.e., the seed of the woman, that is, mankind descended from Eve, will eventually gain the victory over the powers of evil. This victory will, of course, be gained through the work of the Messiah who is par excellence the seed of the woman. The Latin Vulgate has the reading ipsa conteret, “she shall bruise.” Some Old Latin manuscripts have this reading and it occurs also in St. Augustine, De Genesi contra Manichaeos, II, which is earlier than St. Jerome’s translation. It could be due originally to a copyist’s mistake, which was then seen to contain a genuine meaning—namely, that Mary, too, would have her share in the victory, inasmuch as she was mother of the Savior.
More on this. I thought that once I read that in the original Hebrew the one that crushed the serpent was neither he not she, but it.
I then found an article that explains all this. It seems very scholarly and long and explains why Jerome's translation is correct.

"....the original Hebrew word only means: "the former" - the word implies no number and no gender -- that is WHY the older translations use the phrase: "IT" shall crush thy head. That is, perhaps, the most literal translation - if one chooses to isolate this phrase out of it's context. Using the word "it" makes it clear that there is no specific linguistic linkage to gender, which would clearly identify WHO will crush the serpents head. In all fairness, the original word COULD refer to BOTH, since the word used, simply means: "the former" - i.e. the just referred to. Since that last reference was enmity "between your seed and her seed" - it is not clear if "the former" refers to "her" or to "her seed".

And under "Saint Jerome is Right"
The reason St. Jerome is right, and all modern translations are WRONG is because he clearly understood the meaning of CONTEXT of the passage. The context is that there is an enmity between the WOMAN and the SERPENT - and only ONE can rightfully be permitted to CRUSH HIS HEAD. The choices are 1) the woman, or 2) all of her combined offspring designated by the term "it". If there is anything CERTAIN, it is that the OFFSPRING is not a SINGULAR case. Only the WOMAN can be used in the singular case. Therefore, "the former" that the scripture is referring to is, as Jerome accurately translated it, is the woman.

It is MORE of of linguistic stretch to try to force the OFFSPRING of the woman to reference a "specific singular" - than it is permit "the WOMAN" to be the reference of the "specific singular".

If the Hebrew said "he" shall crush thy head, Jerome would have translated it that way - but the Hebrew CLEARLY does NOT say "he" shall crush thy head.

One must simply ask the simple question: if an enmity is established, which it clearly IS "between the woman and the serpent" - who is the prophesied victor?? The answer is the WOMAN. The enmity between the off-spring of the woman, and the off-spring of Satan, is in actuality, only a side note. To change the VICTOR of the enmity between the woman and serpent - to be the OFF SPRING of the woman, simply does not logically follow - because there is absolutely NO SINGULARITY established. The obvious is rendered:
"I will place enmity between you and the woman, and between your children and her children. She shall crush thy head, and you shall strike at her heel."

http://www.unitypublishing.com/SheWillCrush.htm
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
20,296
5,940
113
Yes, plenty of trolls.

Lynx said earlier "We are not here to debate this (yet again.) We are here on this forum to hang out and chat. There are other forums for debating."
Well I haven't seem much "chat" - just trolls and ignorant anti-Catholics abusing myelf and my Church.
Maybe you're reading the wrong threads. I haven't seen much anti-Catholic stuff at all. But I usually hang out in Singles forum, with brief forays into Miscellaneous.

(Protip: You don't have to be single to hang out in Singles forum. It has become the default hangout for the people who just come to relax and chat about stuff. Plenty married people there these days, and glad to have them because they have some good comments.)

Now if you hang around the Bible Argument For... er, the Bible Discussions Forum, you're bound to see LOTS of stuff that will make you angry. That's why I avoid it. My blood pressure is already where I like it, so I don't need to take any BDF medicine to get it higher.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,955
7,146
113
The Catholic Church does not teach that Mary is a co-redemtrix



The RSVCE version has this footnote to Gen 3:15
  • 3.15 he shall bruise your head: i.e., the seed of the woman, that is, mankind descended from Eve, will eventually gain the victory over the powers of evil. This victory will, of course, be gained through the work of the Messiah who is par excellence the seed of the woman. The Latin Vulgate has the reading ipsa conteret, “she shall bruise.” Some Old Latin manuscripts have this reading and it occurs also in St. Augustine, De Genesi contra Manichaeos, II, which is earlier than St. Jerome’s translation. It could be due originally to a copyist’s mistake, which was then seen to contain a genuine meaning—namely, that Mary, too, would have her share in the victory, inasmuch as she was mother of the Savior.
Then you agree it is a heresy to say Mary will crush the head of the serpent?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,955
7,146
113
More on this. I thought that once I read that in the original Hebrew the one that crushed the serpent was neither he not she, but it.
I then found an article that explains all this. It seems very scholarly and long and explains why Jerome's translation is correct.

"....the original Hebrew word only means: "the former" - the word implies no number and no gender -- that is WHY the older translations use the phrase: "IT" shall crush thy head. That is, perhaps, the most literal translation - if one chooses to isolate this phrase out of it's context. Using the word "it" makes it clear that there is no specific linguistic linkage to gender, which would clearly identify WHO will crush the serpents head. In all fairness, the original word COULD refer to BOTH, since the word used, simply means: "the former" - i.e. the just referred to. Since that last reference was enmity "between your seed and her seed" - it is not clear if "the former" refers to "her" or to "her seed".

And under "Saint Jerome is Right"
The reason St. Jerome is right, and all modern translations are WRONG is because he clearly understood the meaning of CONTEXT of the passage. The context is that there is an enmity between the WOMAN and the SERPENT - and only ONE can rightfully be permitted to CRUSH HIS HEAD. The choices are 1) the woman, or 2) all of her combined offspring designated by the term "it". If there is anything CERTAIN, it is that the OFFSPRING is not a SINGULAR case. Only the WOMAN can be used in the singular case. Therefore, "the former" that the scripture is referring to is, as Jerome accurately translated it, is the woman.

It is MORE of of linguistic stretch to try to force the OFFSPRING of the woman to reference a "specific singular" - than it is permit "the WOMAN" to be the reference of the "specific singular".

If the Hebrew said "he" shall crush thy head, Jerome would have translated it that way - but the Hebrew CLEARLY does NOT say "he" shall crush thy head.

One must simply ask the simple question: if an enmity is established, which it clearly IS "between the woman and the serpent" - who is the prophesied victor?? The answer is the WOMAN. The enmity between the off-spring of the woman, and the off-spring of Satan, is in actuality, only a side note. To change the VICTOR of the enmity between the woman and serpent - to be the OFF SPRING of the woman, simply does not logically follow - because there is absolutely NO SINGULARITY established. The obvious is rendered: "I will place enmity between you and the woman, and between your children and her children. She shall crush thy head, and you shall strike at her heel."

http://www.unitypublishing.com/SheWillCrush.htm
Your response to the Satanic catholic doctrine of purgatory and indulgences?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,955
7,146
113
Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David).

Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
Mary IS NOT the Queen of heaven!!! There is NO Queen of Heaven. That is a pagan, Satanic belief!

What's more, Mary is a sinner just like the rest of us, in need of a Savior.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,556
813
113
Yes, plenty of trolls.

Lynx said earlier "We are not here to debate this (yet again.) We are here on this forum to hang out and chat. There are other forums for debating."
Well I haven't seem much "chat" - just trolls and ignorant anti-Catholics abusing myelf and my Church.
I gave you a few items to explain scripturally.... Please start with those. No need to start a new thread, just pick one and explain it. Then we can move on to the next one.
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
6,194
1,314
113
31
Arizona
I feel that any hatred toward people of the Catholic Church is not right. People can disagree with the doctrine of Catholicism but taking it out on those who practice it isn’t needed.

Do I believe that a person should go to another to confess their sins instead of straight to Christ? No. Do I think the pope is the only person who can speak to Him? No. Do I think Mary was anything more than a very favored human? No. Do I think a person can be made Christian by water baptism during infancy? No. Do I hate people who are Catholic? No.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,813
3,117
113
Reminds me of the old saying, love the sinner hate the sin, which isn't in the bible. It is still hate.
What does God say about hate in the bible? And those who hate?
He tells us to hate evil..

Psalms 97 KJV
10 "Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked."

Amos 5: KJV
14 "Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. {15} Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph."
 
B

Bede

Guest
Then you agree it is a heresy to say Mary will crush the head of the serpent?
Not at all. I don't know why you think that in the light of post #124
 
B

Bede

Guest
Your response to the Satanic catholic doctrine of purgatory and indulgences?
With that sort of attitude I see no point in discussing anything with you.
 
B

Bede

Guest
Mary IS NOT the Queen of heaven!!! There is NO Queen of Heaven. That is a pagan, Satanic belief!

What's more, Mary is a sinner just like the rest of us, in need of a Savior.
With that sort of attitude I see no point in discussing anything with you.
 
B

Bede

Guest
I gave you a few items to explain scripturally.... Please start with those. No need to start a new thread, just pick one and explain it. Then we can move on to the next one.
I thought those were directed towards something called the RCC - whatever that is.

I belong to the Catholic Church.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,584
435
83
Why do people on this site hate the Catholic Church?
Because they are spiritually immature sectarian bigots. Luke 9v49,50, 1Cor 3v1-8

Sectarianism is a work of the flesh! Gal 5v16-26.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,955
7,146
113
With that sort of attitude I see no point in discussing anything with you.
I don’t blame you. Because of course you have no answer to the catholic church making money off of people’s fears that their loved ones are suffering in purgatory.

To say nothing of the obscenity of claiming Jesus’s Blood is insufficient to pay for all sin.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
obscenity of claiming Jesus’s Blood is insufficient to pay for all sin.
It is indeed an obscenity... and to excuse false teaching, or underplay a false teachings with no power to save, under the banner of love does no one any favors.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
16,450
5,575
113
OP are you feeling hated?
Did you know that God loved us while we were yet sinners. Yep sinners.
so there is no reason to hate anyone. If God doesnt hate sinners then we have no excuse for hating anyone. He can forgive anyone who repents.
 
B

Bede

Guest
I don’t blame you. Because of course you have no answer to the catholic church making money off of people’s fears that their loved ones are suffering in purgatory.

To say nothing of the obscenity of claiming Jesus’s Blood is insufficient to pay for all sin.
Your just trolling.