Why the division amongst believers?

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Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#21
that could be inferred though quite easily from the use of "misguided"
Actually i believe that more people of Higher IQ are unbelievers / Atheists... Even the Bible declares that not many who are High IQ come to believe and it is an advantage to be simple.. People who are simple and know they are not smart are more open to listening to the teachings of God because they know if they try and figure things out they will stuff up..

1 Corinthians 1: KJV

25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. {26} For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: {27} But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; {28} And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: {29} That no flesh should glory in his presence."
 
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morefaithrequired

Guest
#22
Truth is come by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and has more to do with conviction and conscience then Intellect..
yes i agree. I have a conviction too that JC is the answer. But I am extremely careful how I communicate that to others. its about tone of voice too which we cant capture online.
Be careful you are not condescending. Because if you think you own the truth and someone else doesn't, you will feel superior. In my opinion this is what turns non Christians off Christians. Condescension and arrogance.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#23
And if you were in my place, you would be strongly asserting your belief that you are right and he is wrong. he wouldn't be your friend for long.
And whats wrong with sharing ones beliefs with others with confidence? Why not give it a try?

What if your friend dies tomorrow in a car accident how will you feel then?
 
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morefaithrequired

Guest
#24
Actually i believe that more people of Higher IQ are unbelievers / Atheists
yes I agree with you. I have had my moments with atheists online too. They believe in the religion of Atheism. And worship their own scientific mind.
 
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morefaithrequired

Guest
#25
And whats wrong with sharing ones beliefs with others with confidence? Why not give it a try?

What if your friend dies tomorrow in a car accident how will you feel then?
he will be fine. that si where you are overthinking Christianity. just worry about your own salvation.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,565
3,595
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#26
Because if you think you own the truth and someone else doesn't, you will feel superior. In my opinion this is what turns non Christians off Christians. Condescension and arrogance.
No, no, no... If i have the truth,, And i believe i do,, Then it is by the grace of the LORD and the leading of the Holy Spirit not because of my superior intellect..

I was in a false religion for the first 20 years of my life.. I know what it is like being in the dark and realizing it when i read the Bible and saw the Light..

Becoming a Christian for me had nothing to do with my IQ.. I came to believe because i received the correct information/ teachings.. things i had never read before.. Things i would never have even considered if a true Friend had not givien me the gift of a Bible to read...
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,565
3,595
113
#27
he will be fine. that si where you are overthinking Christianity. just worry about your own salvation.
I'm saved.. I have absolutly no worries about my salvation at all.. The knowledge of the Love of the LORD has removed all fear from me. You think that islam is a Way to eternal life with God? Nope it is in rebellion against the Will of God and it is one of many ways of death..
 
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morefaithrequired

Guest
#28
I'm saved.. I have absolutly no worries about my salvation at all.. The knowledge of the Love of the LORD has removed all fear from me. You think that islam is a Way to eternal life with God? Nope it is in rebellion against the Will of God and it is one of many ways of death..
do you believe in OSAS?
Your peril then is complacency and overconfidence. But you are not alone.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#29
If a Christian believes that another Christian is misguided in their beliefs.. And if they have love for the one they believe is misguided they will speak up and give warning to them about their misguided beliefs..

There are doctrines that are essential to see one saved.. When a person has a false doctrine in one of these essential areas then it is Very important that a fellow Christian give them warning.. And if they reject the guidance given then the true Christian must oppose them to prevent them leading others into deception..

There are doctrines that are no core doctrines essential to salvation.. While Christians should still share their views on such issues they should not use the difference of opinion as justification for division.. Some people seem not to know the difference between a core doctrines and a disputable doctrine of no salvational importance.
Whilst I was having some quiet time and seeking the Father and contemplating these questions the thought came to my mind. God is not a doctrine. Surely God is not so concerned with which doctrines you have in your head, but what your heart is like? I accept that you can feel another Christian may be misguided (or to be more charitable, have a view with which you disagree). But if they are genuinely seeking God and have a good heart then surely it would be more loving to simply accept they have a difference with you, but that you share the same life of God? We must be careful that we are not so certain in our own sense of rightness that we forget the human being. I used to belong to a christian fellowship that was forever criticising other fellowships and churches for being wrong on certain things. To the point that they would start to shun people. The Jehovahs witnesses do the same thing for people who think for themselves and come to different conclusions. A friend of mine has lost his family because he left them; they will no longer speak to him.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#30
That sounds arrogant to me and probably to a lot of non Christians. Its dogmatic. I believe jesus Christ is the answer. But Im not going to force that on someone else. I will tell them what I believe if they ask me. But Im not going to infer they are stupid because they dont have the same belief. I have a Muslim friend. Im not going to tell him his beliefs are "misguided."
Choose not only respectful language but take care to have a respectful attitude to others. otherwise they will disrespect you.
And if you were in my place, you would be strongly asserting your belief that you are right and he is wrong. he wouldn't be your friend for long.
Yes, you are right. And at the end of the day is it God who is the judge of the state of people's hearts or Christians?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,599
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#31
Hopefully by engaging with this site and having fruitful discussions with people my spiritual status can be more clarified. It sounds like you want me to come to a conclusion before I,ve discussed things. I usually like to think and discuss first and then reach decisions. I,m asking God to guide me. Homosexuality is a case in point. I,ve just read Justin Lee's book "Torn" in which he talks of his struggles with his faith and sexuality. He interprets Romans 1 in a very different way; for instance he was not involved with idol worship, but genuinely loves Jesus. So why would God give him over to being gay? Anyway, perhaps this is not the thread to get into all of that. My point is: would you now say that his relationship with God is invalid, or that he is no longer a christian because of his interpretation?
It appeared as if you had given much thought to your situation, but were not willing to make a decision, and or accept the truth of Scripture......but, that may just be me.

I do not know this person you are speaking of, or the Book he wrote. As for the 1st Chapter of Romans, and folks who seek a different interpretation from what it says in pretty much plain speak, that is not uncommon. It happens quite often. When someone finds something in Scripture that speaks against what they are doing/how they are living, or what they think/believe, they start to look for a "different interpretation" that justifies their thoughts/actions.

As for this persons standing with God, IF he continues to live a homosexual lifestyle, then, yes, he is "apart" from God. No one can live in sin and be in good standing with God. Lots of people wish they could, some believe they can, and some actually pretend to, but it is not Truth.

It's not just homosexuality either. Adulterers, drunkards, liars, thief's, abusers, and anyone else who is living a life against God is living "apart" from God.

God does not want them to live that way, or continue to live a life that rejects Him. It is their choice to do so, not His, so do not let us get into the "blame God" game, ok? God doesn't reject us, we reject Him, and if we do so long enough, He will finally allow us to do as we wish, and that, my friend, is when we are lost for eternity.

All believers have a "thorn in their flesh" just as the Apostle Paul did. We all have some thing in our lives that we have to overcome in order to live a Christ like life. As I stated before, having homosexual desires will not keep one from God, giving in to those desires, and pleasing the flesh rather than overcoming those desires and pleasing God WILL!

You could substitute any of several sinful lifestyles for "homosexual" and the statement would remain the same. An alcoholic struggles with their "thorn," as does the liar, thief, adulterer, abuser, drug addict, whatever.........

IF it requires one to abstain from any fleshly pleasures to live for God, then that is what one must do. And that is true for all of the things I spoke of. Throughout the Scriptures, we are told to seek God first and to deny the desires of the flesh.

I don't care what any other person says, one CAN NOT live a life of sin, against God and His Word, and still inherit eternal life. If that were true, then the entire Word of God, and the Gospel of Christ is a lie. My belief, take it for what you will.

As for your "status," when I said to make a decision there first. I meant decide IF you want to be a disciple of Christ. Do you want to invite Christ into your life, to be Savior, and Lord of your life? Do you want to have His precious blood cleanse you of all your sins? Maybe your struggle is that you are trying to do all this on your own, rather than turning to God and allowing Him to take over and do it all for you? I don't know any human being who defeated the devil by themselves. Not even the angles could do this. They all needed God to win the battle.

Make a decision to kneel down anywhere, and with a sincere and contrite heart, repent, confess your sins, and ask Christ to come into your heart to be Lord and Savior, and then LET HIM TAKE OVER THE BATTLES YOU FACE. A wise man once said: "If God be for us, who can be against us?" That is Truth! Do not try to make Scripture fit your desires, make your desires fit Scripture. Meaning set aside your fleshly/earthly desires, and seek God and His desires for you.

I hope the best for you and will be praying for you, and none of this is said in anger or any such thing. I say all of this with a sincere desire that you choose to serve God, and to deny the desires of your flesh, just as any other person must do in order to live a Christ like life as a child of the Living God.............
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#32
It appeared as if you had given much thought to your situation, but were not willing to make a decision, and or accept the truth of Scripture......but, that may just be me.

I do not know this person you are speaking of, or the Book he wrote. As for the 1st Chapter of Romans, and folks who seek a different interpretation from what it says in pretty much plain speak, that is not uncommon. It happens quite often. When someone finds something in Scripture that speaks against what they are doing/how they are living, or what they think/believe, they start to look for a "different interpretation" that justifies their thoughts/actions.

As for this persons standing with God, IF he continues to live a homosexual lifestyle, then, yes, he is "apart" from God. No one can live in sin and be in good standing with God. Lots of people wish they could, some believe they can, and some actually pretend to, but it is not Truth.

It's not just homosexuality either. Adulterers, drunkards, liars, thief's, abusers, and anyone else who is living a life against God is living "apart" from God.

God does not want them to live that way, or continue to live a life that rejects Him. It is their choice to do so, not His, so do not let us get into the "blame God" game, ok? God doesn't reject us, we reject Him, and if we do so long enough, He will finally allow us to do as we wish, and that, my friend, is when we are lost for eternity.

All believers have a "thorn in their flesh" just as the Apostle Paul did. We all have some thing in our lives that we have to overcome in order to live a Christ like life. As I stated before, having homosexual desires will not keep one from God, giving in to those desires, and pleasing the flesh rather than overcoming those desires and pleasing God WILL!

You could substitute any of several sinful lifestyles for "homosexual" and the statement would remain the same. An alcoholic struggles with their "thorn," as does the liar, thief, adulterer, abuser, drug addict, whatever.........

IF it requires one to abstain from any fleshly pleasures to live for God, then that is what one must do. And that is true for all of the things I spoke of. Throughout the Scriptures, we are told to seek God first and to deny the desires of the flesh.

I don't care what any other person says, one CAN NOT live a life of sin, against God and His Word, and still inherit eternal life. If that were true, then the entire Word of God, and the Gospel of Christ is a lie. My belief, take it for what you will.

As for your "status," when I said to make a decision there first. I meant decide IF you want to be a disciple of Christ. Do you want to invite Christ into your life, to be Savior, and Lord of your life? Do you want to have His precious blood cleanse you of all your sins? Maybe your struggle is that you are trying to do all this on your own, rather than turning to God and allowing Him to take over and do it all for you? I don't know any human being who defeated the devil by themselves. Not even the angles could do this. They all needed God to win the battle.

Make a decision to kneel down anywhere, and with a sincere and contrite heart, repent, confess your sins, and ask Christ to come into your heart to be Lord and Savior, and then LET HIM TAKE OVER THE BATTLES YOU FACE. A wise man once said: "If God be for us, who can be against us?" That is Truth! Do not try to make Scripture fit your desires, make your desires fit Scripture. Meaning set aside your fleshly/earthly desires, and seek God and His desires for you.

I hope the best for you and will be praying for you, and none of this is said in anger or any such thing. I say all of this with a sincere desire that you choose to serve God, and to deny the desires of your flesh, just as any other person must do in order to live a Christ like life as a child of the Living God.............
Thankyou for your caring enough to pray for me. I welcome God's guidance. However, I,m not sure that I see the bible as the Word of God ( in that it is infallible and free of error) , but as the lived experience of people as they came to understand God, which is time bound and limited. In the opening chapter of John's gospel Christ is called the Word of God, not a book. And indeed there was no bible for the first 500 years or so of christianity. I think that in modern christianity the bible has become a kind of paper and ink idol that can hinder, as much as help, a living relationship with God. I,m willing to learn on this though. But of course people do interpret the bible in numerous ways and it is this that leads to conflict if people claim they have the final revelation.
You mention that no gay person is in relationship with god if they don't accept that having a relationship with their own gender is wrong. Jesus spoke against divorce and remarriage, saying that if they marry again (whilst their ex spouse is still alive) then they commit adultery. So does everyone who is remarrried have to repent and put their new partners out of their lives? If not then they are committing adultery by Jesus's own words and therefore out of relationship with God. Or do we accept that we need to reinterpret those words for our times.?
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#33
we are each of us accountable, and we will reap what we sow...

when The Holy Spirit dwells within us, we start on our brand-new journey,
one that brings us into the 'will of God' day-by-day, and 'out of the will of our old-selves/lives -
we begin to desire a Spiritual life with our hearts re-focused on what is Holy and virtuous, and
will eventually bring us wholly into the will of our Heavenly Father Who is drawing us unto Himself...
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#34
Hopefully by engaging with this site and having fruitful discussions with people my spiritual status can be more clarified. It sounds like you want me to come to a conclusion before I,ve discussed things. I usually like to think and discuss first and then reach decisions. I,m asking God to guide me. Homosexuality is a case in point. I,ve just read Justin Lee's book "Torn" in which he talks of his struggles with his faith and sexuality. He interprets Romans 1 in a very different way; for instance he was not involved with idol worship, but genuinely loves Jesus. So why would God give him over to being gay? Anyway, perhaps this is not the thread to get into all of that. My point is: would you now say that his relationship with God is invalid, or that he is no longer a christian because of his interpretation?
:LOL::LOL::LOL: This guy, whoever he is, and "blaming God" for "giving(?) him over to homosexuality? Is no different then Adam "blaming God" for giving him Eve!

This guy's relationship with "his god", seems to be very valid.
As to him even being a "christian?"
Is HIGHLY suspect!
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#35
:LOL::LOL::LOL: This guy, whoever he is, and "blaming God" for "giving(?) him over to homosexuality? Is no different then Adam "blaming God" for giving him Eve!

This guy's relationship with "his god", seems to be very valid.
As to him even being a "christian?"
Is HIGHLY suspect!
If you haven't read the book then how can you comment on it?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#36
There was a bible for the first 500 years of christianity it was called the OLD TESTAMENT and Jesus would quote from it. He would also open their eyes to scripture which pointed to Him.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#37
If you haven't read the book then how can you comment on it?
You do realize there are 2 Jesus' don't you?
One, is real!
The "other" is "INSTEAD OF" Jesus!
aka The spirit of anti christ.

Don't have to read no book by anyone, save the Bible, to know God's view concerning homosexuality!
It's an ABOMINATION in His eyes!
Not UNFORGIVABLE, however!
Should he REPENT!
 

BlessedByGod

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
12,196
7,026
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#38
Maybe its better to avoid communication altogether on the subject. Like politics, religion can divide, even if we worship the same God. But that would make forums like this one obsolete I guess.
Would that not negate going to church, as going to church helps to remind us of certain things and to better understand things that are the principles written in the bible. Through scripture, we better understand God will for us, our purpose and to better understand the heart of the Father in Heaven. What we, as people, need to do is listen and if in doubt either research the matter further in the bible, pray, pray , pray about things we are unsure of that others say, or if we are certain it is not biblical, to stand firm on our beliefs with firmness and kindness. If we respond in frustration and anger, that is what people will see. If we but help them to understand or at least give them the tools to research it themselves (verses and prayer), then are we not helping our brothers and sisters to have a better understanding of God and Christ? If we play the "I'm right, so I will win!" attitude, that will only push people further away from the truth we hope they will discover and the light bulb "Aha!" moment we hope they achieve...Love is God, lead others with that same love...
 
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morefaithrequired

Guest
#39
"I'm right, so I will win!" attitude, that will only push people further away from the truth
there is way too much of that on any internet forum. not just Christian ones. But you'd expect better behaviour from Christians I guess. The reality is the opposite. The desire to share and the desire to impress/control is a fine line.
 

BlessedByGod

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
12,196
7,026
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#40
there is way too much of that on any internet forum. not just Christian ones. But you'd expect better behaviour from Christians I guess. The reality is the opposite. The desire to share and the desire to impress/control is a fine line.
Sadly, your right. But, it is always something we can inspire to do better at. And, something we can also point out (with love) to follow believers and pray for them about. We all in the body of Christ and we can hold each other accountable, with nailing each other to the cross with our OWN self righteousness. Good point morefaithrequired.