Hell or John 3:16

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Mar 11, 2019
27
23
3
Colorado
#1
The two choices in John 3:16 are eternal life or you perish. Hell is destroyed by this verse. Never did believe in ECT. 😳
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
26,719
5,046
113
64
Florida
#5
The two choices in John 3:16 are eternal life or you perish. Hell is destroyed by this verse. Never did believe in ECT. 😳
Glad to have you join us Johnny. As Lady Blue has stated, the topic is best suited for the Bible Discussion Forum as you will most likely receive the most responses in the on-going conversation that will take place. Other than that, looking forward to your posts. Welcome to CC.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,760
668
113
#6
The two choices in John 3:16 are eternal life or you perish. Hell is destroyed by this verse. Never did believe in ECT. 😳
Hello Johnny,

How is hell destroyed by John 3:16? It is only for those who believe and repent who will not perish. For those who do not, condemning judgment in the lake of fire is their fate.

The word "apollumi" translated as "perish" coming from its base word "olethros" does not infer annihilation or extinction, but is defined as complete loss of well being, ruination. life and death are both states of existence. The word here means "tropically, to incur the loss of true or eternal life; to be delivered up to eternal misery:

Life = Eternal existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

Death = Eternal existence in separation from the Lord in the torment in the lake of fire

Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Those who have faith in Christ have the promise of eternal life. Those who do not believe in Him, will exist, conscious and aware in separation from God.

Below is the definition of the word Olethros and apolleia, translated as "perish or destroy"

Example: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

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Strong's Concordance
apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684
apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).

Hades/Sheol and the lake of fire, are both very real places of punishment and is the destination for all of those who die in their sins. Consider the following:

"They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name"

In order for an individual to be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, that person would have to be existing, conscious and aware, in order to experience said torment. The same meaning can be derived from the fact that one would have to be existing in order for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever, as well as having no rest day or night.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
1,415
1,161
113
#8
A warm welcome to you and so glad you found CC! You will get used to the procedures here as we all have, God bless!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
7,252
4,031
113
72
#9
Hello Johnny, welcome to CC. I hope you'll enjoy your stay here.

hello-hat-tip.gif

 
Mar 11, 2019
27
23
3
Colorado
#12
Hey Johnny, not sure i agree with you but welcome to the CC!? 🤪
Thanks for the response. I only hope to find the heart of God. In John 3:16 you see eternal life or the alternative, you perish. It’s been strange to hear this verse used by Pastors, at altar calls, then they bring up Hell. Anyway thanks a lot for your polite welcome. Good day☃️🌨
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,760
668
113
#13
Thanks for the response. I only hope to find the heart of God. In John 3:16 you see eternal life or the alternative, you perish. It’s been strange to hear this verse used by Pastors, at altar calls, then they bring up Hell. Anyway thanks a lot for your polite welcome. Good day☃️🌨
They bring up hell, i.e. the lake of fire, because that is where those who reject Christ will end up, conscious and aware. And just as I provided the Greek word translated as "perish" or "destruction," it does not infer annihilation or extinction. But for some reason people ignore the definition of the words. Actually, they seem to ignore anything that doesn't agree with the false teaching that they've adopted, but instead use existing apologetics or create their own.

There is no annihilation or extinction of the human spirit. Everyone who comes into the world exists forever.
 
Mar 11, 2019
27
23
3
Colorado
#15
Hello Johnny, welcome to CChat! :)
They bring up hell, i.e. the lake of fire, because that is where those who reject Christ will end up, conscious and aware. And just as I provided the Greek word translated as "perish" or "destruction," it does not infer annihilation or extinction. But for some reason people ignore the definition of the words. Actually, they seem to ignore anything that doesn't agree with the false teaching that they've adopted, but instead use existing apologetics or create their own.

There is no annihilation or extinction of the human spirit. Everyone who comes into the world exists forever.
1 Timothy 6:16 says God he alone is immortal. If we were eternal there is no reason to ask Jesus for eternal life. The tree of life is needed for humans to live forever. As for Hell I ask which one, Tartarus, Hades, Sheol or Gehenna? See replacing these words with Hell destroys the meaning of these words. Tartarus is a jail for bad Angels, Gehenna is a place of judgement and the physical valley of Hinnon. Sheol is the Grave in the Old Testament and Hades is the grave in the New Testament. Now perish is used 127 times in the Bible and it always means gone, poof, destroyed. Eternal life is a gift, not a repreave from torture inflicted by a Dr Jeckal and Mr Hade deity. No our loving God Offer’s life, but to reject it is to perish.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,760
668
113
#17
1 Timothy 6:16 says God he alone is immortal. If we were eternal there is no reason to ask Jesus for eternal life.
Do understand that there is a difference between eternal life and eternal condemnation? Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Even the wicked dead will receive resurrected bodies (Dan.12:2, John 5:28, Acts 24:15). The wicked will exist forever in separation from the presence of the Lord, which is not eternal life.

Both life and death are states of existence eternal existence:

Life = Eternal existence in an immortal and glorified body in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

Death = Eternal existence in separation from God in a resurrected body fit for punishment in the lake of fire




The tree of life is needed for humans to live forever. As for Hell I ask which one, Tartarus, Hades, Sheol or Gehenna?[/quote]

At the time of death for the wicked, their spirit departs and goes into Sheol/Hades, also translated as Hell. This is a temporary place of punishment located under the earth, which is where the rich man of Lazarus fame, went after he died and where he was in torment in flame. This is not a parable as some claim, but was and actual event revealed by the Lord. All who go into Sheol/Hades will remain there in torment until they are resurrected at the great white throne judgment, where they will be held accountable for all of their sins and then cast into the lake of fire, where the smoke of their torment will ascent up forever and ever.

Tartarus = Used only once referring to the place under the earth where the angels were sent, which is most likely speaking of those angels who took wives from the mankind.

Sheol/Hades = A place of temporary punishment under the earth, which is where the rich man went of Lazarus fame and who is still there in torment in flame. It is the "unseen place," the realm of departed spirits.

Gehenna = Also called the lake of fire, the second death and ever lasting fire. This is the final place of punishment originally prepared for Satan and his angels and the destination for all who will be resurrected out of Sheol/Hades and whose names will have not been found written in the book of life.

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

Sheol/Hades should never be translated as grave, sepulcher, or tomb. But always refers to the place of departed spirits.

All you are doing is repeating the false teachings that you have heard.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,014
4,927
113
#18
Well it’s my first days here. Hope I can figure this site out to bounce my thoughts across. Do you mean one of the topic chat rooms?
These are the forums. Your subject matter is better suited for the bible discussion forum. :)
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,788
231
63
#19
1 Timothy 6:16 says God he alone is immortal. If we were eternal there is no reason to ask Jesus for eternal life. The tree of life is needed for humans to live forever. As for Hell I ask which one, Tartarus, Hades, Sheol or Gehenna? See replacing these words with Hell destroys the meaning of these words. Tartarus is a jail for bad Angels, Gehenna is a place of judgement and the physical valley of Hinnon. Sheol is the Grave in the Old Testament and Hades is the grave in the New Testament. Now perish is used 127 times in the Bible and it always means gone, poof, destroyed. Eternal life is a gift, not a repreave from torture inflicted by a Dr Jeckal and Mr Hade deity. No our loving God Offer’s life, but to reject it is to perish.
Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots.

The Bible says the wicked are twice dead.

All souls will live forever whether with Jesus or not, but eternal life with Jesus means we prosper for eternity, and is a good, and positive thing.
 
Mar 11, 2019
27
23
3
Colorado
#20
Do understand that there is a difference between eternal life and eternal condemnation? Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Even the wicked dead will receive resurrected bodies (Dan.12:2, John 5:28, Acts 24:15). The wicked will exist forever in separation from the presence of the Lord, which is not eternal life.

Both life and death are states of existence eternal existence:

Life = Eternal existence in an immortal and glorified body in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

Death = Eternal existence in separation from God in a resurrected body fit for punishment in the lake of fire




The tree of life is needed for humans to live forever. As for Hell I ask which one, Tartarus, Hades, Sheol or Gehenna?
At the time of death for the wicked, their spirit departs and goes into Sheol/Hades, also translated as Hell. This is a temporary place of punishment located under the earth, which is where the rich man of Lazarus fame, went after he died and where he was in torment in flame. This is not a parable as some claim, but was and actual event revealed by the Lord. All who go into Sheol/Hades will remain there in torment until they are resurrected at the great white throne judgment, where they will be held accountable for all of their sins and then cast into the lake of fire, where the smoke of their torment will ascent up forever and ever.

Tartarus = Used only once referring to the place under the earth where the angels were sent, which is most likely speaking of those angels who took wives from the mankind.

Sheol/Hades = A place of temporary punishment under the earth, which is where the rich man went of Lazarus fame and who is still there in torment in flame. It is the "unseen place," the realm of departed spirits.

Gehenna = Also called the lake of fire, the second death and ever lasting fire. This is the final place of punishment originally prepared for Satan and his angels and the destination for all who will be resurrected out of Sheol/Hades and whose names will have not been found written in the book of life.

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

Sheol/Hades should never be translated as grave, sepulcher, or tomb. But always refers to the place of departed spirits.

All you are doing is repeating the false teachings that you have heard.[/QUOTE]
You can’t show one verse in the Old Testament that Sheol relates to ECT.