A different Look at the tribulation/god's wrath and post rapture

So in doing my research at looking into the end times and prophesy, I have found some interesting things. First I would like everyone to take a look into the mount of olives and revelations six. If you have understand and insight in scripture I recommend you study what I am about to say, they are almost an exact mirror of each other. Each seal was described very well by Jesus on that mount in the same order.

I also would like to point out I do not believe the seven seals are God's wrath, but rather the antichrists or the devils wrath. I think the seven trumpets are God's wrath. And of course many of the Seals have already happened, there is famine, random earthquakes in diverse places, there are rumors of war and perhaps very soon there will be war. There are many coming these days claiming to be christ( what nut jobs) and so on and so forth. However we are not yet in the tribulation because the true antichrist has yet to come out and declare he is the christ. and plus the restrainer must be taken before the devil can have his way on earth for seven years.

Plus It is possible the antichrist will reveal himself in the 3 and half year in the tribulation. Now on to God's wrath and the post tribulation rapture. I can see how it would make sense, I mean in those days when the age of the tribulation ends and God's wrath begins, it will be dark and doom and gloom 24/7. People will ask for the mountains to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of lamb because they know what is coming. I mean everyone will be looking up in those days, whether by fear or excitement, so I can see how the post Rapture theory can fit there. However I am not yet convinced about this, I am still a pretribe rapture person. But hey, I am willing to go through the tribulation for the lord because I know he will give me more than enough strength and courage to make it through.

But people the fact of the matter is that whether you can see it or not, a great time of horrible evens is coming soon, It cannot be a mere coincidence that all these signs and events from scripture have and are coming true rapidly. If we do not wake up and prepare our hearts will we be able to stand against the false Christ and his wrath on the Christian people?

Trouble enough for this world before the wrath of; satan, demons and God are poured out we are the nation that is above every nation will be judged by how we have treated and are treating other nations in the physical and political, but God's faithfulness to us who believe will escape His and satan and his demons wrath. If God will be merciful to us in the spiritual in that what we have done by sending out the Gospel. That He will pour out the Holy Spirit upon those professing and those who have the work of the Holy Spirit to the denying and death to selfish fleshly desire and chose to receive and give God's divine Love of Agape.
It is seemingly to my heart that God's judgment first will be to those that He has given the most to, and if He does judge us as a nation then the promise I hope and pray for is the out pouring of the Holy Spirit that will come to our broken nation broken because of it's love of the delicacies of self pleasures of flesh, God will allow the world to judge us for our sins against them because of our monetary selfishness and greed, we are robbers because of the abuses of this nation and it's money. This nation can and does print money (85 billion per month) which is the only commerce trade currency world wide if other nations do not have it they can not trade, then we gorge our self at the expense of all the other nations while we go in debt for trillions to many of these nations, they very soon (as soon as one year from now) will and are conspiring to break the dollar and the trillions we are in debt to them for. When this happens we as a nation will be broken deserted and judged by our own greed and the way we treated the world we will be left to sew in our sins as a nation plunging us into powerless obscurity. This will be the opportunity the test the dividing line between the foolish and the wise virgins (the difference between the wise and foolish is the wise denies self flesh accomplished by the working of the Holy Spirit), the choice to Love in Divine Agape or to fear within fleshly self for self. Wise ones will be clothed with Holy Spirit Power never seen in the Church age, power to transcend limits of nature to reach the lost going out with fire of the Holy Spirit in our hands to impart to any and all that are willing to work for the harvest before the grapes of wrath of God's Judgment for rejecting Jesus THE Savior.

the division of the wrath of satan and the wrath of God as to end time events hadn't actually crossed my mind before. i would like to see you post on this again.....in increments so i can both disect and digest the possibilities in what you are saying. i want to acertain it's relevance and value. on the surface, not having had time to process it, it seems to have merit. thank you for posting it.

Yes agape what you say is true, it gets me excited just thinking about it:]

And also, the antichrist and all who support and work for him will come in the name of love and peace. If someone is trying to scam you they will pretend to be honest and really care for you or really need your help. So when you hear someone coming in the name of love and peace this is when you must be very cauteous and look to the sky for our redemption is near. Most people who come in the name of love are and peace are really not. The parable of the wheat and the weeds describes this end times issue as well. You see us for the true living god are the wheat, the weeds are the ones who are not. they were to grow together until harvest and then the weeds would be collected and burned.

Now as we the wheat and weeds grow together it is hard to tell who is who, but when tribulation begins and the antichrist reveals himself, this is the harvest day where the wheat and the weeds will be seperated. I assume the rapture happens before the tribulation, but one must always be open for new understanding, if we are to go through the tribulation we are not going through it with no help. We are most likely going to be very spirit filled as agape mentioned, the tribulation is supposed to be the greatest revival in history. Even more so than when Christ did his ministry and God is going to use those who are willing to be used.

Well in simplicity God's wrath is from the rejecting of His Son and the His suffering that won and bought and paid for THE Love relationship with us in reconciliation, Satan hates us who are made in the image and likeness of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, the seals are the unleashing of these demons for the purpose of God's wrath executed by the demons hatred of mankind, as you read the Revelation I sense a gradually within the 31/2 years going into the remaining 31/2 years a pressing opportunity for all mankind on the planet to either repent or the choice for their hearts to grow harden (much like pharos heart in the 10 plagues). The trumpets are for the mixture of God sending certain destruction or sending demons to destroy along with sending more demons to do the destruction and death. Seven Seals Rev.6:1-8 The Anti Christ War Famine Hell And Death all come from directly demons and satan through those on the Horses, The Trumpets are directly from the angels from God. Rev 12 the angelic war causes satan to ravish the earth beasts of demons out of the earth and the sea. Then the seven vials are directly from angels from God Rev. 15-16. The sixth vial is using demons along with the seventh vile while the others are directly from the angels power to the elements of the earth. The fifth trumpet is the release of the demons while the others are the power of God to change the earth elements. Then ultimately Jesus come to destroy all men hardened beyond salvation at the Battle of Armageddon. As the 7 years proceeds then the intensity and extremity of judgment and wrath also increase until all mankind have been gleaned to either calling out for mercy unto salvation or hardness unto damnation.

Write the things which you have seen - your sealing
And the things which are - how you blow the trumpet
And the things which will be - your plague like effect on non-believers

Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21, and the Revelation, all tell you how your current problems get solved if you follow Jesus.

But people who insist on it being doom for a future day, have been promised by the law and the prophets that if you insist on doomsday, you will get a doomsday.

We are slowly planning out our own blueprint for the end days, and God will deliver our blueprints right in our faces.

Hi Blain, My God bless and keep you!! Thank you for introducing this subject. I used to be a die hard pre-tribber as I was taught that my whole life. But as I got into the Word, I see there is no scriptural basis for the Pre-Trib position. However, I have posted a lot about this on other threads. I just want to touch on something new that the Lord gave me and it goes with what you said about the tares and the wheat.

Look closely at Mat 13 below.

[h=3]The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares[/h][SUP]24 [/SUP]Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; [SUP]25 [/SUP]but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. [SUP]27 [/SUP]So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Please see that the tares are taken away first. This is so key to understanding how the rapture idea got started.

Back to Matthew 24

[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[SUP][f][/SUP] your Lord is coming.

The one taken isn't the raptured one, it is the evil. There is a verse in Proverbs that says the same thing.

I just read through revelations again, seeing more each time.
I like what you have shared here, and will consider all spoken to, seeking truth in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
Ive never been a tribber ether way, not because I dont believe, its just, it is more important that one knows Jesus, so as not to be decieved.
I believe in faith, that whatever happens, when we look always to Jesus, we will see and recieive all we need.
Thankyou for sharing your thoughts on this.

God bless
pickles

very true the seals have been open and we just saw the pale horse been released and caught on camera in Egypt by CNN. more so, the death level increasing and economic distress. surely, all this is happening right in front of our sight.

recently, on new year's day here in Kenya, God sent A CLOUD OF HIS GLORY upon the ground we had Crusade on. it was so glorious people captured it on cameras and videos. at that time, many people received their healing and the church was re-baptised. This really humbled us for when ever the lord descended in a cloud during Israelite time, TOTAL PURITY was demanded

but the message of all that's currently happening is simple

"PREPARE THE WAY, THE MESSIAH IS COMING RIGHT AWAY''

I think I can see a connection between Joel and the 6th trumpet of Revelation 9.

The Day of the Lord
2 Blow the trumpet in Zion,
And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;
For the day of the Lord is coming,
For it is at hand:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains.



A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]A fire devours before them,
And behind them a flame burns;
The land is like the Garden of Eden before them,
And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Their appearance is like the appearance of horses;
And like swift steeds, so they run.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]With a noise like chariots
Over mountaintops they leap,
Like the noise of a flaming fire that devours the stubble,
Like a strong people set in battle array.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, [SUP]14 [/SUP]saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone. [SUP]18 [/SUP]By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For their power[SUP][a][/SUP] is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm. Rev 9

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Before them the people writhe in pain;
All faces are drained of color.[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]7 [/SUP]They run like mighty men,
They climb the wall like men of war;
Every one marches in formation,
And they do not break ranks.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]They do not push one another;
Every one marches in his own column.[SUP][b][/SUP]
Though they lunge between the weapons,
They are not cut down.[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]They run to and fro in the city,
They run on the wall;
They climb into the houses,
They enter at the windows like a thief.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Lord gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?

i don't think there is 'wrath of satan' anywhere in the book of revelation...

in my view the seals have been getting opened throughout history and aren't connected with an 'end time' period...for example the first seal is constantine...the second seal is the crusades...and so on...

the seventh seal appears to be a 'milestone' marking the beginning of a new period of time...within that time period the seven trumpets and seven bowls of God's wrath appear to happen concurrently...

The Lord is coming at the 7th trumpet. See below as the timing couldn't be clearer. T

[h=3]Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom Proclaimed[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms[SUP][f][/SUP] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, [SUP]17 [/SUP]saying:

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[SUP][g][/SUP]
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”


[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant[SUP][h][/SUP] was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. Revelation 11.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________


[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. [h=3]The Coming of the Son of Man[/h][SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

brother blain...

FIRST OFF... the 7 Seals are ALL OPEN as we speak... AND the 7 Seals are for the GENTILES ONLY... for the 7 Church Ages and their Messenger for that Church Age... 7 Church Ages/ 7 Earthly Man Messengers... 1 for each Church Age...

the FIRST SEAL opened with the Apostle Paul for the First Church Age to the Gentiles... Ephesus
the SECOND SEAL opened with Saint Irenaeus for the Second Church Age to the Gentiles... Smyrna
the THIRD SEAL opened with Saint Martin for the Third Church Age to the Gentiles... Pergamos
the FOURTH SEAL opened with Saint Columba for the Fourth Church Age to the Gentiles... Thyatira
the FIFTH SEAL opened with Saint Luther for the Fifth Church Age to the Gentiles... Sardis
the SIXTH SEAL opened with Saint Wesley for the Sixth Church Age to the Gentiles... Philadelphia
the SEVENTH SEAL opened in OUR TIME for the Seventh Church Age to the Gentiles... Laodecia

also the SIXTH SEAL & SEVENTH SEAL are each a 3 FOLD PURPOSE...

the SIXTH SEAL has ALL been fulfilled and the SEVENTH SEAL is NOW OPEN and we are waiting just for the silence in heaven... for this is the RAPTURE... in REVELATION 4:1-2... is actually were the BRIDE is RAPTURED/TRANSLATED and taken into the CLOUDS TO MEET OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IN THE AIR AND TAKEN AWAY FOR 3 1/2 YEARS TO A GLORIOUS WEDDING FEAST... but before the RAPTURE OCCURS KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR RELATIVES OR FRIENDS THAT HAVE LONG BEEN GONE ROAMING AROUND ON EARTH FOR 40 DAYS...

for the dead shall raise FIRST... and after 40 days... the BRIDE SHALL BE TRANSLATED ALONG WITH THE DEAD... and then GOODBYE... RAPTURE JUST OCCURRED...

REVELATION is written in such away that it takes the HOLY SPIRIT ITSELF TO REVEAL IT TO US AND IT'S ONLY FOR THE BRIDE AND NOT THE CHURCH BODY OR THE WORLD...

so basically... REVELATION CHAPTERS 1-4... IS FOR THE GENTILE DISPENSATION AGE ONLY... AND REVELATION CHAPTERS 5-19 IS FOR THE JEWS ONLY... THEN REVELATION CHAPTERS 20-22 IS FOR WORLD BUT NOT THE BRIDE FOR SHE WAS JUDGED ON EARTH BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD... ONCE SEALED BY GOD HIMSELF WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT... ALWAYS SEALED...

FOR ONLY THE BRIDE RECEIVES THE HOLY SPIRIT... FOR THEY ARE THE TRUE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD HIMSELF BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD...

also the 7 TRUMPETS... WHICH IS FOR THE JEWS ONLY... have all been blown AND finished under the SIXTH SEAL of the GENTILE DISPENSATION AGE...

and once the BRIDE IS RAPTURED... the antichrist reveals himself and claims himself as god... and the Jewish Synagogue is UP AND ON ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION... then begins the Great Tribulation also once the BRIDE IS RAPTURED for 3 1/2 years...

after the 3 1/2 years is up... my LORD JESUS CHRIST AND HIS BRIDE return for the SECOND COMING and this is the Battle of Armageddon... and then satan is bound for a 1,000 years while my LORD JESUS CHRIST AND HIS BRIDE RULE IN THE MILLENNIUM FOR THAT SAME 1,000 YEARS... then satan is loosed once more BUT this times GOD HIMSELF CONSUMES THEM ALL WITH HIS HOLY PILLAR OF FIRE FROM HEAVEN... which afterwards is the Great White Throne Judgement...

then after ALL this comes the NEW HEAVEN... NEW EARTH... AND THE NEW JERUSALEM... WHICH ARE ESTABLISHED NOW AND FOREVER MORE FOR ALL ETERNITY...

also...

a SEAL is a MESSAGE...
a TRUMPET is an ANNOUNCEMENT/DECLARATION...
a VIAL is a JUDGEMENT...

some things to think about truly...

GOD BLESS...

While I agree the seals are being opened, we haven't seen anything that remotely resembles the 6th seal. I believe this is the next event of Revelation to happen.

As for wrath of Satan, absolutely true. Look at Rev 12:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Some of the trumpets are clearly demonic in nature. The 5th and 6th trumpets appear to be Satan lead.

2-1/2 years the tribulation (wrath of Satan), 1 year the Day of the Lord (wrath of God) = total of 3-1/2 years.

Sure there is...

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

If there was a pre-tribulation rapture the beast could not make war on the saints if they were gone. Just sayin'.
Revelation 13:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The way I look at it, and the way I understand human nature, it seems to me that the pretrib rapture theory causes apathy to a large extent.

Hebrews 4:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.