Do you believe in Cessationism or Continuationism? (poll)

I was going to answer, but now I am sad that psychmom has left! I mean, you could not have a more gentle and loving person. And her post was out of concern, not to be negative.

I also did not answer the poll. I guess I would best be classed as "not putting God in a box."

In other words, if God wants to do a miracle, I am all for it. But if he wants to stay silent, all the commanding in the world is not going to move my God.

Personally, I have seen many miracles of the spirit, including healing in my own spirit. But I have never seen a miracle of physical healing, and for the first 15 years I was saved, I went to charismatic/pentecostal churches.

I do know that God is in control. And my personal opinion is that people spend way to much time worrying about signs and wonders, instead of actually learning what the Bible says about discipleship and sanctification. Or evangelism. Or many other Biblical topics.

I want to see people drawn to Jesus, not to miracles. I want to see Jesus being worshipped, not the deeds he does.

I'm done. And if you are reading this Ellie, I miss you already!

Yeah, I don't know what that was all about. All of a sudden I noticed she was a guest and I couldn't access her profile page. Did she get offended?

As for the miracles bit, all those things... miracles, signs and wonders they are to draw people to God, to Jesus. It reveals the heart of God when a person is healed.

Dear Lord give me strength.

I just spent 27 hours a day, eight days a week,
every month for the last two weeks,
proving that salvation is by grace alone
through faith alone, in Christ alone!
Doesn't ANYONE have a sense of humor anymore?
IT . WAS . A . JOKE !

I think the joke flew over his head. I noticed it was a joke, but then that happened. : / Yes, I know you are from the grace side of things.

The Kingdom age started at Pentecost therefore all the spiritual gifts are available still.

You and I are going to line up on the gifts sister. But Ellie was going to leave(as you probably know) a few months back and decided to stay. I was hoping that her decision to stay was permanent. Darn.

Nice post Angela, I have talked to a man as he cried me the story over the phone, this man is an architect, he died (bad car wreck back when cars were metal crushing his face into a metal dash board), came out of his body and floated over himself at hospital before going to visit heaven. Then to come back and stun all the doctor's and nurses because they did not know how to reconstruct his lower face (mouth area). He came back with the knowledge himself and drew the blueprint of the reconstruction. Pretty amazing story, very nice man.

Now, ladylynn, how was THAT on topic?

(now you have to kick yourSELF out)

Hi Angela! Totally agree about Ellie!! There must be a major error going on here. I will miss her very much should she not be coming back. We need Christian ladies like Ellie here more than ever. Please come back Ellie! (CS1-go back and get her!!!!!)

I'm a Functionalist. If Jesus tells us to heal the sick, we should function at a level that brings healing to the sick. If the Bible tells us we are to cast out demons, we should function at a level that enables us to cast out demons. If Paul tells us to speak responsibly in tongues and prophesy, we should function with the freedom to responsibly speak in tongues and prophesy. But if we proclaim that God is all powerful, and then chip away at His power by adding not here, not now, not these - then we limit the Holy Spirit’s ability to bear fruit in us as Jesus intends.

What happened to Ellie? Don't exactly have the same views as her but I am concerned..

Public prophecy comes with strings attached... there must be an interpretation, and it must not be anything new to scripture - one might consider it a current application of the existing Word of God. It serves as evidence of God, and as a faith-builder to us. This kind of tongue is one that would typically be gifted to only a few, to those with a calling for leadership. It is a leadership tool used among a group for recruitment, guidance, and team building, if I may. But, while this is more towards a calling than a spur of the moment gift, don't think it can't involve you if God needs it to.

The non-public tongue Paul wished everyone spoke - this private "prayer language" as we have come to call it... what purpose might that have? God tells us that by it, we speak mysteries. You know, there is a spiritual power in the spoken word... it sets loose and binds things both here and in the heavens. Suppose you are praying for a friend - you pray about the things you know about. But what about the things you don't know about - how do you speak a prayer over that? The Holy Spirit knows. If only the Holy Spirit Who knows the mysteries could speak thru me who doesn't... This tongue benefits the speaker and the receiver, and again sows faith among them.

How do we test these things? They must not contradict or add to God's Word, and it's glory must rise up the food chain all the way to Christ. Anything that falls short of those, is suspect.

This is ok with me.

Thanks, God bless

I am an open but cautious cessationist but I'm not sure if your definition of cessationist jives with mine.

I don't believe there are modern day apostles or prophets. We have the ministry of the apostles and prophets through their writings in Scripture. They are the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20).

Regarding tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy in the sense of foretelling the future, healings in the sense of being localized to an individual, etcetera, these gifts were associated with the apostles and prophets, and I don't believe they exist today. HOWEVER (a big however), I do believe God heals today based on corporate and individual prayer.

I am open minded to considering that the sign gifts are still for today, but I have reason to doubt some of those who claim such gifts. For instance, someone claims to have went into a morgue and raised a dead person. Morgues have multiple levels of security that I doubt she could have bypassed. In addition, why don't we read about such a body disappearing and being found alive later?

And, it isn't just one person who seems erratic who makes such claims..unfortunately it's the majority of them that I personally know. If I listen to their dialogue very long I find irregularities in behavior or doctrine. There is one exception, though..I have a friend I've known for years who doesn't have such irregularities and says he speaks in tongues so that is why I remain open but cautious.

It seems like most "healings" are also unverifiable, and involve trivial things like claiming one's leg was lengthened by some small amount, or that a headache disappeared, or something along that line. Things which can easily be claimed, and that we cannot verify one way or the other whether the person had the condition before AND after.

And, if I ask the question....has any person with serious cerebral palsy, a missing limb, blindness, or something that is very hard to fake been healed of these chronic illnesses, only the most erratic people will claim to have seen such a thing. If one sound minded person, whom I've had a history with, and can attest that they are solid (like a trusted pastor of my own), would tell me they've seen such a thing, I'd trust their witness. I haven't heard anyone like that say such a thing.

Do I think God can heal all infirmities? Absolutely yes. Do I think he heals on occasion? Absolutely yes. Do I think any individual has this gift? I haven't seen it localized to an individual, and the ones I've heard claim it display erratic behavior or doctrine.

Do I believe there is a gift of tongues? Absolutely yes. Do I believe it is active today? I don't know. Do I think it involves real foreign languages that the person is enabled to speak supernaturally? Yes. Am I open minded to considering other manifestations such as a prayer language? Yes. Do most of those who claim this gift seem erratic to me in other respects? Yes. Therefore, does that give me reason to doubt them? Yes.

Do I admit that I could be wrong on part of my views on this topic? Yes. If individuals who are erratic in terms of behavior or doctrine relate accounts to me concerning raising the dead, multiple healings they've performed, etcetera, are they going to convince me that I might be wrong? No Are internet chat forum members likely to convince me I'm wrong? No

I also hate it that some continuationists try to claim that cessationists don't believe that God heals today, or that the rest of the spiritual gifts are not in effect. This is patently false. If we don't believe that the miraculous sign gifts are in effect, it does not logically follow that we don't believe God heals, and that we don't believe the other gifts are in effect. This is a slander that I've heard perpetuated by some continuationists.

One lady who used to chat made it plainly known that she was "spiritual" and we were not, if we did not hold that the miraculous sign gifts were in effect today. She claimed that if you haven't received a subsequent "baptism in the Spirit" that you are not spiritual. I am not into the two tier view of Christianity thing.

I am in the Cessationist camp. I believe those gifts were given to, and used by, the Apostles - to verify and spread the gospel message. But now that we have the complete scriptures, they are no longer necessary.

However, that is not to say God cannot step in and do as He desires as far as miracles go.

The bible says that three sign gifts would cease. They did but only the three. Problem is that the crowd who wants to keep the three signs gifts has distorted the remaining gifts to suit their agenda. God does heal but God has never appointed healers. If we had healers they would go into the hospitals and put the doctors out of business.

1 Cor 13:8 is still in my bible.

The cessation continuation argument is just a red herring. A ruse through which one can play fast and loose with Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1 Corinthians 13:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

I guess when knowledge is done away with, so will these other ones mentioned in the same passage.

Maybe there is more to this then we see with just one verse. It's kind of like this scripture below. If we just went by that one scripture - we would all be in deep trouble because we have all sinned.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.