Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
i have answered every single post directed at me from him that ive seen

i have never ignored a scripture and done my best to show ben the truth everything he asked of me said i would "ignore scriptures"


this is a lie
and an insult

also
from his posts ive seen him only teach a works based salvation

also many lies that go directly against the gospel of Jesus

you can quote me and act like im the bad guy

but no

i dont care if someone disagrees with me

but i speak up when i see lies

you just imputed the "disagree with me" bit to me
Amen Mcgee, I speak up when I see lies too, some people here are professional's at lying and twisting our words so the we look like the bad guy, shame on them, God hates a "Lier." But be of good cheer so did people lie about our Savior. God approves of suffering for what is right and noble.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.






Isaiah 57:12 I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
What do you think 'practicing the truth' means. It is doing good works.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I have never been to a church building that preaches against Good works or looks down on good works for a believer , thats just silly !
And also Ive seen many churches who do tons of Good works and accomplish alot of great things helping those in need

I have been to plenty who ADD good works to the Gospel , which is probably more of the reason why they decline in attendance
Are you saying that the decline is due to those who declare they are saved are burdened by the good works that Christ has prepared for them to do? So burdened by the whole new person in Christ deal that is supposed to unleash one's desire unto good works, that they give up on the church they are going to and then join a church that preaches 'not of works,, lest we boast', and there they are comfortable, praising the Lord, but doing nothing or little to advance his kingdom? Is that what you are trying to tell me?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I can also admit to seening a lot of good works perfomed by many good Christians that believe they are born again and saved unto good works for the love of Jesus and our fellow men. It is wonderful to see, and the Jesus is pleased with the effort.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I can also admit to seening a lot of good works perfomed by many good Christians that believe they are born again and saved unto good works for the love of Jesus and our fellow men. It is wonderful to see, and the Jesus is pleased with the effort.
yup
saved apart from works
forever
who will in no wise be cast out


unto good works


i mean the effort of men may be wonderful to you

but what i believe is truely wonderful is God working in His children

God making a wicked people new creatures

and adopting them
sealing them
and keeping them

His love is truely amazing
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
Are you saying that the decline is due to those who declare they are saved are burdened by the good works that Christ has prepared for them to do? So burdened by the whole new person in Christ deal that is supposed to unleash one's desire unto good works, that they give up on the church they are going to and then join a church that preaches 'not of works,, lest we boast', and there they are comfortable, praising the Lord, but doing nothing or little to advance his kingdom? Is that what you are trying to tell me?
" sigh "
why do you twist what i said ?
I didnt say believers are burdened by good works done for the Lord , I said if they believe they MUST do them it can become burdensome , because they ( like you ) think if they dont do enough , they wont be saved
And I have not seen many in a church that preaches the True Gospel , " not of works , lest we boast , doing nothing or little either
Where do you get these ideas ?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
" sigh "
why do you twist what i said ?
I didnt say believers are burdened by good works done for the Lord , I said if they believe they MUST do them it can become burdensome , because they ( like you ) think if they dont do enough , they wont be saved
And I have not seen many in a church that preaches the True Gospel , " not of works , lest we boast , doing nothing or little either
Where do you get these ideas ?
God bless you sis..
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
58
28
What do you think 'practicing the truth' means. It is doing good works.
Amazing. Two scriptures provided from both old and new testaments. And still you insist works save. Pitiful.
You shall never be right about that. Not ever in an eternity shall you be right. Oh, you can argue that works are part of the process of salvation, meaning to say, works are necessary to be saved, but you will never ever ever in all ever be right.

Why?
Because God's word tells everyone else you are wrong! God's word speaks loud and clear. And not a soul who loves and honors the truth of God's words through Christ's ministry ever tries to corrupt it.
Works are evidence of salvation! They are not a means of keeping it! Or attaining it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=galatians+2&version=MOUNCE
A great resource is an interlinear new testament. Both the Greek, which was the original language the NT was written in. And the English translation included in the Interlinear version. This way the full meaning and context of the scripture is available for all who are genuinely seeking the truth.
Not to argue a falsehood that can never be sustained by actual scripture.
The truth! Of Christ's teachings in God's words. And those words tell us repeatedly , works do not save. And, we do not have to work to stay saved!
Those teachings are lies! Straight out of the pit of Hell.
They will never ever be truth simply because those opposed to truth hope to convince the faithful in Christ to follow a lie. The devil is a liar!

Jesus came to save us from that. Not lead us to that. :)

I for one will not entertain anti-gospel-jlb's whenever I find them yet again. They are known by their fruits. Rotten to the core.
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
58
28
" sigh "
why do you twist what i said ?
I didnt say believers are burdened by good works done for the Lord , I said if they believe they MUST do them it can become burdensome , because they ( like you ) think if they dont do enough , they wont be saved
And I have not seen many in a church that preaches the True Gospel , " not of works , lest we boast , doing nothing or little either
Where do you get these ideas ?
Maybe I can help you.

There was a member of a different forum that use to argue this same thing this same way using these same methods. They were so dark and determined that they posted a light filled image of Lucifer on their profile picture. And they claimed eternal salvation was not true. That we could lose our salvation if we didn't work, work, work, to keep it. We could lose our salvation if we sinned even once.
Someone asked for that particular clarification from that person. "Are you of a mind we can sin once and our salvation will be stripped from us?"
"Yes!" He said. He called himself by a name that was an acronym. Justified in Lucifer's Bidding.
He was so corrupt and dogged determined in arguing the anti-gospel, as one person accused but was edited for saying those words, and warned by a moderator in a PM, while the offender to whom she was speaking was left to continue his ministry, that the owner of the website finally did something about Lucifer's Bi...dder.

He banned the topic of ......
eternal salvation.
And any and all allusions to, eternal security.
Now Luficers servant is there continuing on under a new commandment by his master. Another pillar of the faith is being attacked by his insistence toward the anti-truth.
He's a member of quite a few forums. One outed him as the atheist that he is because he was found on an atheist dating site using his masters acronym as his screen name.
When he found that out he changed his name to something else.
:)
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
i ignore no scriptures

and have explained many of them to you....

you just keep choosing to believe doctrine of men


or maybe you are incapable of seeing the truth

either way

youre in error
Do you believe this bible scripture and how does it fit into your 'saved' theology?

Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Maybe I can help you.

There was a member of a different forum that use to argue this same thing this same way using these same methods. They were so dark and determined that they posted a light filled image of Lucifer on their profile picture. And they claimed eternal salvation was not true. That we could lose our salvation if we didn't work, work, work, to keep it. We could lose our salvation if we sinned even once.
Someone asked for that particular clarification from that person. "Are you of a mind we can sin once and our salvation will be stripped from us?"
"Yes!" He said. He called himself by a name that was an acronym. Justified in Lucifer's Bidding.
He was so corrupt and dogged determined in arguing the anti-gospel, as one person accused but was edited for saying those words, and warned by a moderator in a PM, while the offender to whom she was speaking was left to continue his ministry, that the owner of the website finally did something about Lucifer's Bi...dder.

He banned the topic of ......
eternal salvation.
And any and all allusions to, eternal security.
Now Luficers servant is there continuing on under a new commandment by his master. Another pillar of the faith is being attacked by his insistence toward the anti-truth.
He's a member of quite a few forums. One outed him as the atheist that he is because he was found on an atheist dating site using his masters acronym as his screen name.
When he found that out he changed his name to something else.
:)
Hello, this description is not me. I preach what Jesus preaches. It is not dark, it is the truth. Good works are part of the salvation process. Good works, however, can not save you, but as I have said many time, good works is a sign that you have faith in Christ.

Doing the good works that Jesus has created for you = eternal life.
Not doing the works that Jesus has created for you = no eternal life.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Amen Mcgee, I speak up when I see lies too, some people here are professional's at lying and twisting our words so the we look like the bad guy, shame on them, God hates a "Lier." But be of good cheer so did people lie about our Savior. God approves of suffering for what is right and noble.
Are we being a little melodramatic.

You signature says that to be saved, all you have to do is call upon the name of the Lord. I don't see the word 'believe', nor do I see the word 'grace', nor do I see the word 'faith'. So is this it, call upon the name of the Lord? Or is there more to being saved than this?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
" sigh "
why do you twist what i said ?
I didnt say believers are burdened by good works done for the Lord , I said if they believe they MUST do them it can become burdensome , because they ( like you ) think if they dont do enough , they wont be saved
And I have not seen many in a church that preaches the True Gospel , " not of works , lest we boast , doing nothing or little either
Where do you get these ideas ?
So 'if they must do them' is the impediment? Well if Jesus creates a good work for them to do, and they feel like they are being forced to do them, and they resist and do not the works that Jesus has created for them, are they really saved?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Do you believe this bible scripture and how does it fit into your 'saved' theology?

Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
i have explained most of matthew 6
7
and 8 to you


you rejected the truth when i did last time

you falsely interpret pretty much every verse i see you try to explain

and reject reproof from every angle you recieve it (from what ive seen of you anyways)


but yes
every single verse fits nice and snug in eternal security for those who rightly divide

if you want me to RE-EXPLAIN a question you have asked me now three times

and rejected my answer

sorry
not wasting my time

(unless someone is genuinely seeking the truth and would actually like this verse explained IN context feel free to quote this message or pm me)



:EDIT:

lol now im wasting my time with the new search feature

i will just bump one of the last times i already explained it to you
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Amazing. Two scriptures provided from both old and new testaments. And still you insist works save. Pitiful.
You shall never be right about that. Not ever in an eternity shall you be right. Oh, you can argue that works are part of the process of salvation, meaning to say, works are necessary to be saved, but you will never ever ever in all ever be right.

Why?
Because God's word tells everyone else you are wrong! God's word speaks loud and clear. And not a soul who loves and honors the truth of God's words through Christ's ministry ever tries to corrupt it.
Works are evidence of salvation! They are not a means of keeping it! Or attaining it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=galatians+2&version=MOUNCE
A great resource is an interlinear new testament. Both the Greek, which was the original language the NT was written in. And the English translation included in the Interlinear version. This way the full meaning and context of the scripture is available for all who are genuinely seeking the truth.
Not to argue a falsehood that can never be sustained by actual scripture.
The truth! Of Christ's teachings in God's words. And those words tell us repeatedly , works do not save. And, we do not have to work to stay saved!
Those teachings are lies! Straight out of the pit of Hell.
They will never ever be truth simply because those opposed to truth hope to convince the faithful in Christ to follow a lie. The devil is a liar!

Jesus came to save us from that. Not lead us to that. :)

I for one will not entertain anti-gospel-jlb's whenever I find them yet again. They are known by their fruits. Rotten to the core.
I have always maintined that works will not save you.

I agree with you that works are evidence of salvation. IOW if you have good works that is evidence that you are saved. By the same token, if you do not have good works, that is evidence you are not saved.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,333
113
Hi Stunnedbygrace, I sometimes have the same reaction to his preaching, a gifted man of God. Quote: His theology is more or less Calvinist but he thinks of himself as a, "mere Christian." nice to see you back again and on our
"New Modified Formate", God bless!

I hope this biography wasn't to long, "Reading and Christianity seem to go hand in hand."

Charles Spurgeon
Finest nineteenth-century preacher


Quote:
"I am perhaps vulgar, but it is not intentional, save that I must and will make people listen."

When Charles Spurgeon died in January 1892, London went into mourning. Nearly 60,000 people came to pay homage during the three days his body lay in state at the Metropolitan Tabernacle. Some 100,000 lined the streets as a funeral parade two miles long followed his hearse from the Tabernacle to the cemetery. Flags flew at half-staff and shops and pubs were closed.

His formal education was limited, even by nineteenth-century standards: he attended local schools for a few years but never earned a university degree. Though he eschewed formal education, all his life he valued learning and books—especially those by Puritan divines—and his personal library eventually exceeded 12,000 volumes.

At age 15, Spurgeon broke with family tradition by becoming a Baptist. He attributed this conversion to a sermon heard by "chance"—when a snowstorm blew him away from his destination into a Primitive Methodist chapel.

His theology, however, remained more or less Calvinist, though he liked to think of himself as a "mere Christian." "I am never ashamed to avow myself a Calvinist," he once said. "I do not hesitate to take the name of Baptist, but if I am asked what is my creed, I reply, 'It is Jesus Christ.'"

His energy and oratorical skills and harmonious voice earned him such a reputation that within a year and a half, he was invited to preach in London, at the historic New Park Street Chapel. The congregation of 232 was so impressed, it voted for him to preach an additional six months. He moved to the city and never left.

Spurgeon replied, "I am perhaps vulgar, but it is not intentional, save that I must and will make people listen. My firm conviction is that we have had enough polite preachers."

On certain subjects, he was incapable of moderation: Rome, ritualism, hypocrisy, and modernism—the last of which became the center of a controversy that would mark his last years in ministry.

Spurgeon's contributions were larger than his pulpit, however. He established alms houses and an orphanage, and his Pastor's College, opened in 1855, continues to this day. He preached his last sermon in June 1891 and died six months later.
Have you ever read Oswald Chamber?
He really makes you think
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
So 'if they must do them' is the impediment? Well if Jesus creates a good work for them to do, and they feel like they are being forced to do them, and they resist and do not the works that Jesus has created for them, are they really saved?
They might be , not for me to judge anothers salvation

Scripture talks about " quenching the Holy Spirit " so thats what that person you described would be doing , but quenching doesnt mean not saved or losing it
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
i have explained most of matthew 6
7
and 8 to you


you rejected the truth when i did last time

you falsely interpret pretty much every verse i see you try to explain

and reject reproof from every angle you recieve it (from what ive seen of you anyways)


but yes
every single verse fits nice and snug in eternal security for those who rightly divide

if you want me to RE-EXPLAIN a question you have asked me now three times

and rejected my answer

sorry
not wasting my time

(unless someone is genuinely seeking the truth and would actually like this verse explained IN context feel free to quote this message or pm me)
So you are crying on the forum that you have answered every question that I have given you. So I give you a simple question to answer and then you rant and rave about having already answered it and give no explanation about how it fits into your theology.

So stop crying and look at my simple question and answer it simply, no 2 page document that you worked on for 2 years and cut and paste. Just how do you believe Matthew 6:14-15, and how does it work into your 'saved' theology.

If you have answered it before, indulge me one more minute and answer again. It may be worth your time to help such a sinner as I.