Is faith a reliable way to know truth?

Because I just do. I also feel as if I have free will, when most likely I don't.

I think there is no free will, but I could be wrong.

I am seeking truth, and I am asking Christians to do the same.

I am seeking truth, and I am asking Christians to do the same.

So you made a lot of absolute truth claims, which you clearly did... and now after getting everyone into a debate, you're changing your position?


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you're an intelligent, educated person. as a scientist, wouldn't you agree that "Because I just do" is reducible to genetic influence and cultural conditioning?

clearly not all humans are interested in cooperating all the time. Slightly different genes, different conditioning would result in humans that would likely kill, Imo.

suppose we alter the story slightly. Instead of a human, it's a very human-like robot on the island with you. Is it easier for you to kill now, to turn the robot off?

Now that is an interesting question, because I actually study artificial intelligence. If we are assuming the robot does not have a consciousness, it would be easy to turn it off. If it does have a consciousness, I would treat it the same as a human. The difficulty is in telling wether the robot is conscious. Turns out that is pretty much impossible, so I would err on the side of it being conscious.

I am seeking truth, and I am asking Christians to do the same.

Where did I say I was certain? I'm not changing my position, I'm just saying that I could be wrong. I know almost nothing for certain.

The robot is not going to use the food supply. I think I'd turn the robot off and on just to save power so the robot would be around a little longer ... just something to do while I'm stranded.

suppose the robot is human-like enough to consume food. what it does with it you're not quite sure.

the difference between humans and robots is that humans are conscious. But is there objective evidence for that? to be honest, I'm not sure.

I'm not aware of any experiment that can demonstrate consciousness. I'm interested in finding out if there is one.

The robot can be turned off. I'd have the food. Turn the robot back on later. Win-Win.

you and I believe that humans are conscious. many atheists believe this also.

But do we believe this because we have evidence? Is that conclusion arrived at by the scientific method? Or is it something we believe?

We can see the difference between a person who is conscious and a person who is unconscious so I suppose we would know by evidence.

an interesting point.

From the atheist point of view then, if the other person on the island is asleep, there is no difference between turning them off or turning the robot off.

From observing your posts I find this to be somewhat dishonest. You recognize that you don't believe in the God of the Bible. You also recognize that you could be wrong.

Both assertions lead to the possibility that there may be truth in the Bible, you just can't see it or believe it.

It seems you do believe things written by others that you can't prove by science to be true. So believing in things that can't be seen, a central tenant of the Christian religion, is also practiced by you.

So as with many humans, you have a belief, even a religion, it's just that your belief is in a different invisible un-provable truth than mine.

Personally I know I can't "KNOW" the origin of the universe, and neither can you. You have your belief and I have mine.

It seems a little self righteous to "Know" I am wrong, when you admit to knowing there is no way to "know" you are right.

So what you seem to be doing on this Biblical discussion forum is trying to convert others to your religion. But for me, I don't believe in your god, I choose to believe in another. You are free to your beliefs that you can't prove, I should also be free to my beliefs that I can't prove.

Changing your position and then denying it:

After quite vigorously informing us of your astuteness in philosophy, you're now going to pretend you understand neither the meaning nor the gravity of a truth claim?

You made truth claims.
You know perfectly well you made truth claims.
Now you have changed your position.

You can simply admit this, and blame it on whatever... or you can deny it and force me lay it all out for everyone.
If I have to lay it all out, then I'll also have to point out your intentional deception of changing your position and then lying about it.




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I think the difference is that I recognize that I could be wrong, whereas so many Christians are unprepared to change their beliefs. If science proves me wrong, I will admit I was wrong and give up my wrong beliefs.

... , whereas so many Christians are unprepared to change their beliefs. If science proves me wrong, I will admit I was wrong and give up my wrong beliefs.