Power to forgive sins on behalf of Christ

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M

Metternich

Senior Member
#21
Jan 13, 2018
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#21
7seasrekeyed said:
The context of John 20:23 is that Jesus was speaking to the disciples (v. 19). He breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit (v. 22). There is nothing in here about priests having the authority to forgive sins. There is nothing here (or anywhere else in the New Testament) about apostolic succession that says priests have the authority to forgive sins and that it is passed down. The Bible does mention appointing elders (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5), and that the disciples of Jesus had special authority (Matt. 16:18).

It speaks of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19) as well as ordaining men to the ministry (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6; Titus 1:5). At best, the laying on of hands deals with ordination--not apostolic authority being passed down. After all, they were ordaining elders and not apostles; and it was the apostles who were given the authority by Christ to do miracles and write scripture. Nothing is said here about apostolic authority being passed down.


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Judas was replaced by Matthias so you have apostolic succession right there. Why would the authority to forgive sins not be passed down?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#22
Jul 3, 2015
55,867
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#22
Metternich said:
Judas was replaced by Matthias so you have apostolic succession right there.
Why would the authority to forgive sins not be passed down?
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Jesus chose Paul.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#24
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,906
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#24
Metternich said:
Judas was replaced by Matthias so you have apostolic succession right there. Why would the authority to forgive sins not be passed down?
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We will leave aside the issue of Matthias (who is never mentioned after Acts 1). The simple answer is that apostolic authority was apostolic authority. It could not be handed down to anyone else. There are only TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB, Paul being the 12th apostle.

The power to remit and retain sins had a very specific application. It had nothing to do with the fact the only God can forgive the sins of anyone. See my previous post on this. The so-called power of absolution given to Roman Catholic priests has no basis in Scripture. Indeed the RCC priesthood is invalid, since every genuine believer is a King-Priest within the Royal Priesthood of the children of God.
 
Bladerunner

Bladerunner

Senior Member
#25
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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#25
jameen said:
If the Roman Catholic Church explains that the power to forgive sins was inherited from the apostles who were given by Christ to do it and it was passed to its priests up to the Pope and it will be done by Sacrament of Confession

Then the questions are:

How do Bible based groups forgive sins on behalf of Christ like the apostles who were given the power from Christ?

Do some of them believe that their ministers/pastors were given by Christ to forgive sins on his behalf?
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Man has no authority over all.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#26
#26
Metternich said:
Judas was replaced by Matthias so you have apostolic succession right there. Why would the authority to forgive sins not be passed down?
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what Magenta said

sounds like you might believe people can forgive sins while busy sinning themselves

nope. not biblical

I noticed you believe you were saved at baptism (as you put it)

would that be infant baptism?

baptism does not save anyone. Jesus does.

baptism is an outward expression of a changed life. it does not save you
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#27
#27
jameen said:
If the Roman Catholic Church explains that the power to forgive sins was inherited from the apostles who were given by Christ to do it and it was passed to its priests up to the Pope and it will be done by Sacrament of Confession

Then the questions are:

How do Bible based groups forgive sins on behalf of Christ like the apostles who were given the power from Christ?

Do some of them believe that their ministers/pastors were given by Christ to forgive sins on his behalf?
Click to expand...
No man is given the power to forgive sins. He is a sinful being himself.
 
P

PurpleCandles

Active member
#28
Jun 23, 2018
117
69
28
#28
Why go through a mediator like a priest? If someone is a Christian their sins are always forgiven them because Christ knows their name and his sacrifice intercedes for that Christian .

God forgives. Christians are to forgive those who trespass against them. That's for our sake.
 
G

glf1

Active member
#29
Jun 10, 2018
314
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#29
Under the New Covenant, every person that is born of the Spirit is an eternal king and priest of the order of Melchizedec. Jesus being the King of kings and our eternal High Priest. As such, each one who has the Spirit, is an able minister of the gospel with both the word and the ministry of reconciliation.
1 Jn 5:17a "If any man see his brother sin a sin that is not unto death he shall ask and he will give him life for them that sin not unto death..."
 
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pjharrison

Guest
#30
#30
That's right , we can only forgive someone who has done something to us. We cannot pardon someone else sin.
 
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pjharrison

Guest
#31
#31
glf1 said:
Under the New Covenant, every person that is born of the Spirit is an eternal king and priest of the order of Melchizedec. Jesus being the King of kings and our eternal High Priest. As such, each one who has the Spirit, is an able minister of the gospel with both the word and the ministry of reconciliation.
1 Jn 5:17a "If any man see his brother sin a sin that is not unto death he shall ask and he will give him life for them that sin not unto death..."
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Meaning the brother may ask God and God may give the brother life. It means something that the brother know about. Not something that any random person can come and tell you about. Even the priest in the old testament had to offer up a sacrifice for their own sins first.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#32
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#32
we can forgive through Spiritual Love someone who has wronged us,
thus letting go of something that might take root and cause us to sin -
but only our Holy Saviour can 'inter-cede' for them to The Father,
upon their heart-felt repentance...
 
M

Metternich

Senior Member
#33
Jan 13, 2018
216
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#33
Hungry said:
Where did He give that authority?
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Jn 20:22-23
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
 
M

Metternich

Senior Member
#34
Jan 13, 2018
216
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#34
Nehemiah6 said:
This is true, but must be properly interpreted and understood.

As stated in the King James Bible: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

1. This authority to "remit" and "retain" sins was given exclusively to the apostles (and only the ten who were there at that time). We do not know if Thomas was later on given this authority, but it is more than likely that he was.

2. This was a part of apostolic authority within the churches in order to make judgments about sins and deal with them under Christ's delegated authority. So it was comparable to making the apostles *judges* (magistrates) within the churches. They will be judges over the twelve tribes of Israel in the Millennium and beyond.

3. This had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins, which only God can do when sinners come to Him for salvation.

4. We see two examples in Scripture as to how Peter applied this apostolic authority -- Ananias and Sapphira and Simon the Sorcerer. We also see Paul exercising this authority in the church at Corinth.

5. The Roman Catholic notion of giving priests the authority to grant *absolution* is totally unscriptural and false. Once the apostles passed away, this authority was withdraw. and as we can see, it was rarely exercised.
Click to expand...
 
M

Metternich

Senior Member
#35
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#35
You forget about apostolic succession. Judas was replaced by Matthias. Jesus called Paul as the 13th apostle. The number of apostles increased as the church grew to today in all the Catholic bishops of the world. You give no proof that it was not to be transmitted down to successors. I think you just might be prejudiced against priests.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#36
#36
An important verse which is overlooked by the Catholic Church.

James 5:16 NKJV
[16] Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that
you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

James 5:16 NLT
[16] Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may
be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces
wonderful results.

Now that would be something to see wouldn’t it. If a person went to a
Catholic to confess sins and the priest confessed his back!

The above is rarely seen in action. Maybe if it was there would be less
pride, more humility, more love and prayer for each other.

Anyway for what its worth I get things wrong a lot, I have bad thoughts,
I don’t trust or prayer like I should. I get frustrated and impatient. I even
upset people on here, my fellow brother and sisters in Christ and I’m sorry.
 
M

Metternich

Senior Member
#37
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#37
7seasrekeyed said:
The context of John 20:23 is that Jesus was speaking to the disciples (v. 19). He breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit (v. 22). There is nothing in here about priests having the authority to forgive sins. There is nothing here (or anywhere else in the New Testament) about apostolic succession that says priests have the authority to forgive sins and that it is passed down. The Bible does mention appointing elders (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5), and that the disciples of Jesus had special authority (Matt. 16:18).

It speaks of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19) as well as ordaining men to the ministry (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6; Titus 1:5). At best, the laying on of hands deals with ordination--not apostolic authority being passed down. After all, they were ordaining elders and not apostles; and it was the apostles who were given the authority by Christ to do miracles and write scripture. Nothing is said here about apostolic authority being passed down.


source
Click to expand...
You say there is no apostolic succession but Judas was replaced by Matthias and Jesus called a 13th apostle, Paul. Why can we not assume that other apostles were named when one of the originals died. Also others would logically be ordained as the church grew.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#38
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,906
113
#38
Metternich said:
You forget about apostolic succession.
Click to expand...
Another myth promoted by the Catholic Church. No wonder all the bishops in Chile resigned instead of facing prosecution.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#39
#39
Metternich said:
You say there is no apostolic succession but Judas was replaced by Matthias and Jesus called a 13th apostle, Paul. Why can we not assume that other apostles were named when one of the originals died. Also others would logically be ordained as the church grew.
Click to expand...
really?

The Bible says there is none. I did not write the Bible

there is no Apostolic succession

none. that is not in the Bible

nowhere in the Bible

no

not there
 
M

Metternich

Senior Member
#40
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#40
Nehemiah6 said:
Another myth promoted by the Catholic Church. No wonder all the bishops in Chile resigned instead of facing prosecution.
Click to expand...
Then why was Judas replaced and why did Jesus call Paul to be an apostle. Perhaps the church was growing?
 
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