John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism

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Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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Unsaved people might be spiritually dead, but they are alive, and can hear the gospel, choose to believe it, and become saved (spiritually alive).
The Bible says they are dead in their sins and trespasses, having eyes they don't see, having ears they don't hear
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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Exactly. Sinners can understand that they are sinners, and can also believe that Christ died for their sins, when the Gospel is preached, and the Holy Spirit does the convincing and convicting. See Acts 2.
That describes the elect of God perfectly well, but the Holy Spirit leaves the reprobate in their sins
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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There's no such thing as a believing scientist who holds to the accepted scientific position. The Bible contradicts their belief, so you are either a scientist who is approved by main stream science or a Christian. You can't have it both ways because they are vehemently opposed to each other.
Just in case you didn't know, all the highly intelligent scientists look down on believers as fools. They would never accept the Bible, because it doesn't make any sense to an intelligent person.
Only simple people can accept it because simple people don't critically analyze it as the intelligent people do, we are told to believe by faith because if we critically analyzed it we also wouldn't believe it because it doesn't make logical sense.

The scientific method is evidence based and it must be repeatable, our faith cannot be proven to anyone. We just believe because we have been told to believe and we just respond and obey without critical analysis, because we are sheep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
 

trofimus

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Unsaved people might be spiritually dead, but they are alive, and can hear the gospel, choose to believe it, and become saved (spiritually alive).
But how the belief begins? Hearing is not everything. There must be also a good soil for the seed (heart) prepared. How do you make a good heart for hearing the gospel by yourself?
 

Danny1988

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trofimus

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Yeah right, pigs will fly. Remember Judas also professed to be a Christian, that link is useless. It's just a list of "nominal" Christians, as I said anyone can call themselves a Christian.

You can't accept science and the Bible, you must choose one as they are both claim the other is a lie.
Thats quite a harsh and serious accusation of millions of people around the world you do not know at all...

I know Leibniz quite well from that list (I read his books). He was not a nominal Christian.

Also, how much of intelligence is too much for being a Christian, for you?
 

Danny1988

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Thats quite a harsh and serious accusation of millions of people around the world you do not know at all...

I know Leibniz quite well from that list (I read his books). He was not a nominal Christian.

Also, how much of intelligence is too much for being a Christian, for you?
It's simple, you either choose to believe science or God. You can't believe in both as they are polar opposites.
Intelligent people will never believe in God, they only believe what they can see and touch.
God only saves simple sheep who blindly follow His Son, they usually have a very low intellect.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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It's simple, you either choose to believe science or God. You can't believe in both as they are polar opposites.
Intelligent people will never believe in God, they only believe what they can see and touch.
God only saves simple sheep who blindly follow His Son, they usually have a very low intellect.
First, I am not sure what is your connection between science and intelligent people. You can be intelligent without being a professional scientist.

Second, both the universe and the Bible are given by God. Bible says that God is clearly visible in His creation. So they are not polar opposites.

There is no conflict between real science and real theology. Only between real science and wrong theology or between bad science and real theology.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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What is the biblical meaning of reprobate?

Strong's Concordance
adokimos: not standing the test, rejected
Transliteration: adokimos

Which means disqualified, failing the test, rejected, unapproved, worthless.

Now the Bible makes it crystal clear that ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God, and that THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS no not one. So if God were in the business of condemning the whole world of sinners (or a large portion thereof), not a single person would be saved, and all would be disqualified and rejected, and deemed reprobate.

But what saith the Scripture?

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:30).

If all men everywhere are commanded to repent, and if all would heed that command, then all would be saved. Therefore THERE IS NONE REPROBATE, NO NOT ONE. God offers salvation freely to "whosoever will".

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

Presenting the sovereignty of God when the issue is the infinite grace of God means a dishonest presentation of the Gospel. When Christ gave us the parables of the lost coin, the lost sheep, and the lost son, was he presenting the sovereignty of God? And should that not settle the issue?
What about John chapter 10?

John 10:25-30
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30 I and my Father are one.


When the Lord told them why they didn't believe wasn't that a "Soveriegnty" issue?

Isn't this what Calvinists believe? That the Lord God chooses the sheep and causes them to walk according to His Statutes?

Seems pretty biblical to me.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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It's simple, you either choose to believe science or God. You can't believe in both as they are polar opposites.
Intelligent people will never believe in God, they only believe what they can see and touch.
God only saves simple sheep who blindly follow His Son, they usually have a very low intellect.
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

I don't know if I would call them "intelligent" people.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Maybe intelligent "after the flesh"....

Which is what I think you meant in the first place.
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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First, I am not sure what is your connection between science and intelligent people. You can be intelligent without being a professional scientist.

Second, both the universe and the Bible are given by God. Bible says that God is clearly visible in His creation. So they are not polar opposites.

There is no conflict between real science and real theology. Only between real science and wrong theology or between bad science and real theology.
All the great minds on the planet today and throughout history have all been Atheists, they mock Bible believing Christians as morons and imbeciles with a low intellect.

They say that religion appeals to them because they need someone to lead them make sense of their world for them as they can't do it themselves. I have been to many Churches and I've never meet or heard of a rocket scientist or brain surgeon, they're all low to middle class people in Churches.

I don't have to prove that we aren't very intelligent, the Bible says that God chooses the fools of this world and He rejects smart people. I'm sure you know this but you're just a bit embarrassed to admit it.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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All the great minds on the planet today and throughout history have all been Atheists, they mock Bible believing Christians as morons and imbeciles with a low intellect.
This is simply not true.
I don't have to prove that we aren't very intelligent, the Bible says that God chooses the fools of this world and He rejects smart people. I'm sure you know this but you're just a bit embarrassed to admit it.
"World" in the Bible has several meanings, some are cosmological, some are about people and some are theological. You know it too :)
 

shrume

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Jun 26, 2017
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It's simple, you either choose to believe science or God. You can't believe in both as they are polar opposites.
Intelligent people will never believe in God, they only believe what they can see and touch.
Simply not true.

God only saves simple sheep who blindly follow His Son
Where does the Bible say anything about "blindly following", except in the context of unbelievers? (Mat 15:14; Luke 6:39)

they usually have a very low intellect.
Did Paul have a "very low intellect"?
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

I don't know if I would call them "intelligent" people.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Maybe intelligent "after the flesh"....

Which is what I think you meant in the first place.
I'm not able to communicate as eloquently as you Sir, so I thank you for summing up what I was trying to say. I have recently converted from Roman Catholicism, where nobody knew anything about the Bible. Only the priests had one, so I'm trying to learn as quickly as possible.
Thanks for listing those verses, they are very helpful :)
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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This is simply not true.


"World" in the Bible has several meanings, some are cosmological, some are about people and some are theological. You know it too :)
Go and read what Grandpa wrote about your so called smarties, which you look up to and I look down on.

Yes we all know about the different contexts of the word "World", all you need to do is read before and after the word and you can easily place it in it's intended context. It's quite simple to do
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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Simply not true.


Where does the Bible say anything about "blindly following", except in the context of unbelievers? (Mat 15:14; Luke 6:39)


Did Paul have a "very low intellect"?
Everyone in the bible had a low intellect, Solomon was the only exception because He asked God to illuminate Him.

Notice Jesus deliberately picked out fishermen and ordinary folks to follow Him. He didn't go to the smarties, He left them in their lost reprobate state
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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Everyone in the bible had a low intellect, Solomon was the only exception because He asked God to illuminate Him.

Notice Jesus deliberately picked out fishermen and ordinary folks to follow Him. He didn't go to the smarties, He left them in their lost reprobate state
Not true either. Matthew was not a fisherman, he was a toll colector.

Paul had the best school of religion of those days.

Luke was a doctor.

Also, having a manual profession has nothing to do with not being smart or intelligent. When you read letters of John or Peter, they were intelligent. John uses philosophical terms (logos pros ton theon) etc. They were not stupid.
 

shrume

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Jun 26, 2017
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Everyone in the bible had a low intellect
What a ridiculous assertion.

Solomon was the only exception because He asked God to illuminate Him.

Notice Jesus deliberately picked out fishermen and ordinary folks to follow Him. He didn't go to the smarties, He left them in their lost reprobate state
Are you claiming his disciples were stupid?

Are you claiming fishermen have low intellect?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Thats quite a harsh and serious accusation of millions of people around the world you do not know at all...

I know Leibniz quite well from that list (I read his books). He was not a nominal Christian.

Also, how much of intelligence is too much for being a Christian, for you?
The thing is did men like Leibniz...., did they hold to the wordily view as natural; "nothing created something" or the supernatural (no nature) view of one who has no beginning ?

Let there be and there was.... or nothing created something?

Can't find God in a microscope , as if he was made of the rudiments of this corrupted world .

That kind of vain order is reserved for the philosophers, and oral traditions of men who do not walk by the unseen (faith)

We are warned of them who attempt to make God's word as God's law (not a philosophical theory of men) to none effect.

The missing bone is still missing.

Colossians 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, "after" the tradition of men, "after" the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
 

Danny1988

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Jun 24, 2018
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Not true either. Matthew was not a fisherman, he was a toll colector.

Paul had the best school of religion of those days.

Luke was a doctor.

Also, having a manual profession has nothing to do with not being smart or intelligent. When you read letters of John or Peter, they were intelligent. John uses philosophical terms (logos pros ton theon) etc. They were not stupid.
OK, I'll give it to you. Matthew was a gifted tax collector (even though it takes zero IQ to collect taxes).

God gave Paul a special gift of preaching, that just took faith and no intelligence was required either.

Luke was a herbalist, just like those you see at the markets. they didn't have modern medicine in those days. So again, little IQ required.

Go back and read what Grandpa wrote to support what I'm saying, I'm sure your jaw will drop when you do.