Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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There is truth in it, but consider none of those people in Matthew 7 ever had salvation

That is what I was talking about.

They think they are saved because the coined a False Doctrine of Salvation.

Then HE said:

Luke 13:28 (HCSB)
28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place, when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but yourselves thrown out.


That is BITTERNESS towards Christ, because they think they deserve SALVATION.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
The time spend on bickering could have been spent on meditating on how much God loves us, to grow
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I am gonna guess that ben is catholic
Hi Ljs, I'm leaning Catholicism as well. benhur's lack of eternal security dove tails nicely with "Purgatory." Half of my family were practicing Catholics and I went with non-denominational conservative Christian theology, a blessing from God.

benhur's is without dispute promoting a "grace plus works salvation", and knowing my families Catholic background they were very legalistic about maintaining their Catholic liturgy and good works.

I prayerfully hope that one day benhur will reveal his "Church affiliation" and stand up for Jesus.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
how may are "holy and above all"? how many popes are there?
 

TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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The time spend on bickering could have been spent on meditating on how much God loves us, to grow
This is a, "Bible Discussion Forum" you can always change the channel to something more pleasing to you. Or even better yet you can start a new thread on "meditation and God's love", just an alternate suggestion.

The title of this thread say's it all; "Not By Works"
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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This is a, "Bible Discussion Forum" you can always change the channel to something more pleasing to you. Or even better yet you can start a new thread on "meditation and God's love", just an alternate suggestion.

The title of this thread say's it all; "Not By Works"
I did notice that "lightbearer" disagreed with me and I am sorry he could not take the time to tell everyone here why he disagreed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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True, but as for Assemblies of God there I read nothing about eternal security.
Now there I have evidence, that you just SKIMMED over my POST. LOL

In that Post, I HAD THE EVIDENCE that the doe believe in the ETERNAL SECURITY of the Believer in CHRIST:

  • Assembly of God - "Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life." AG.org

And that comes from the AG.org website.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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The time spend on bickering could have been spent on meditating on how much God loves us, to grow

So how do you ever hope to be obedient to this verse?

Jude 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.
4 For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
So how do you ever hope to be obedient to this verse?

Jude 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.
4 For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.
it's impossible to empathy what judgment is like, but we know that it will be scary
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
So how do you ever hope to be obedient to this verse?

Jude 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.
4 For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.
exhortation is necessary, I just don't know the whole Bible
keep going
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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WHO MOCKS GOD?

THOSE WHO SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT PART OF SALVATION ARE THE ONES WHO CLEARLY MOCKS GOD.

DO "OSASERS" BELIEVE THAT THOSE WHO SOW TO PLEASE THE SPIRIT WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE.? I DOUBT IT, BECAUSE NO ONE CAN SOW WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING. THEIR BELIEF IS THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF WORKS.

CAN FAITH WITHOUT OBEDIENCE TO GOD SAVE THEM?

IS IT NOT DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD IF WE SOW TO PLEASE THE SINFUL NATURE? AND WHAT DO WE REAP FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT, IS IT NOT DESTRUCTION?

DOES OBEDIENCE THEN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION?

WHY NOT TEACH OBEDIENCE AS WE ARE COMMANDED TO DO (matthew 28:18-20)RATHER THAN SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

IT IS CLEAR THAT GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(ephesians 5:6)

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit
will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

New International Version 1984 Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.

Romans 1:28-32 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things DESERVE DEATH , they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
so tell me, you who claim that OSAS is false, do you accuse people of being complacent and falsely accuse people of abusing OSAS as an excuse to sin?

so tell me, during the time when you confess every sin to be saved, what if for each confession, 2 underlying sin happened, to the point where it's impossible to confess all of it?

and, do you seriously believe that people can become Christ-like without God's help?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)
SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.
THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.
JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)
WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?
WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)
IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?
JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?
GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)
NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?
Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.
ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?
DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..
"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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1 John 2 : 1-6
1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

2 John 1 : 4-11
4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us.
5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another.
6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Jude 1:5-19 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. THEY SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE OF THOSE WHO SUFFER THE PUNISHMENT OF ETERNAL FIRE. In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them. Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion. These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, "IN THE LAST TIMES there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT.


Matthew 24:10-13 AT THAT TIME MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, BUT HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED.


Romans 15:4 FOR EVERYTHING THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE PAST WAS WRITTEN TO TEACH US, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures WE MIGHT HAVE HOPE
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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exhortation is necessary, I just don't know the whole Bible
keep going
Contend in some versions is the WORD, much stronger than Exhortation. Some version use FIGHT those who present a false doctrine and God, but that word seems to strong for what the author intended. So I will stick with Contend, with pictures the boxing match, which is what we do here. If you DO NOT CONTEND with False Teaching in the FLOCK, your congregation will become polluted with all kinds of FALSE TEACHINGS. Jude said He wants to EXHORT US, and then he switches to another much Stronger word TO CONTEND against False Teachings.

Your congregation is one of those that TEACHES A LOVE ONLY FALSE GOSPEL? Am I right? NO warning people about HELL, No wrath of GOD taught in your Church, No Consequences for Sin taught there either, etc. Stick around and you may learn something. I do not even think I can win the opponent over, I post so that the Babes in CHRIST will not be deceived by those presenting a false Gospel or false Doctrine.
 

TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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so tell me, you who claim that OSAS is false, do you accuse people of being complacent and falsely accuse people of abusing OSAS as an excuse to sin?

so tell me, during the time when you confess every sin to be saved, what if for each confession, 2 underlying sin happened, to the point where it's impossible to confess all of it?

and, do you seriously believe that people can become Christ-like without God's help?
OSAS is a strawman argument for people who say, "you can lose your salvation", just for the reason you stated in your post. They claim OSAS gives a believer a license to sin which is false and far from the truth. No True Christian will habitually sin when they are born again and haveing the Holy Spirit dwelling within the believer.

The "Eternal Security" of the believer is a doctrine of the Church and supported by the bible in many places. OSAS is not a doctrine of the Church, and is used by people who do not believe in eternal security, such as the Catholic Church and Church of Christ.

I believe in the eternal security of the believer, and it is supported by the bible.
Ephesians4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1Corinthians1:89
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews7:25
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans8:34
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

God bless
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,586
113
so tell me, you who claim that OSAS is false, do you accuse people of being complacent and falsely accuse people of abusing OSAS as an excuse to sin?

so tell me, during the time when you confess every sin to be saved, what if for each confession, 2 underlying sin happened, to the point where it's impossible to confess all of it?

and, do you seriously believe that people can become Christ-like without God's help?

Believe it or NOT, some of THEM think they Do Not Sin since they supposedly received Christ.

I found a Scripture that will prove they are Sinners and just denying it:


1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.




Doubt that SPEED LAWS are called ORDINANCES?
http://www.arvin.org/wp-content/upl...ng-Speed-Limits-on-Certain-Streets_020717.pdf






Radar will prove you sinned against the Ordinance, and God.