PROVING THE TRINITY IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE

Let's test your oneness cult theology mr. modalist. You said keep saying that Jesus Christ is God the Father and your accusing us of blaspheming. The following is what the Jews said at John 5:18, "For this cause (what cause noose?) the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him/Jesus, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling GOD HIS OWN FAHTER, making Himself equal with God."

So what did Jesus say that caused the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy? John 5:17, "My Father is working until now, (one person of the Father) and I Myself am working" (one person of the Son). There are clearly "TWO" persons in this verse, one is God the Father and the other is His Son, Jesus Christ. So how in the world can you sit there and say that Jesus Christ is God the Father?

Moreover, if your view is correct then you have the Jews accusing God the Father of blasphemy? Secondly, look what Jesus says to His parents at Luke 2:49, "Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE." Again, how can Jesus be God the Father and be in His Father's house? There are still two distinct persons in this verse as well.

Now, going back to John 5 look at vs19, "Truly, truly, I say to you the Son can do nothing of Himself, (by definition Himself means one person), unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for (or because) whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner." The whole chapter of John 5 has two distict persons in view, not one and the same person in your "cultic" thinking.

What your also doing is mixing up the two words, "being" with the word "person." Being is defined as having existence. It could be an object, an idea, a symbol, anything that simply exists. Person is defined as "All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence, the essential nature, personality or characteritics/attributes.

And lastly, the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy, what was the blasphemy noose?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I guess you really don't know the LORD if you don't know the eternal God is light.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:5

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:Col 1:15

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: t
1 Tim 6:16

the Bible does not back you up on your assertions

you may remember that English is not the language it was originally written in and the Greek that it was written in, uses the personal pronoun 'HE' without exception every time a personal pronoun is used for the Holy Spirit

in other words, you are expressing an opinion in ignorance of what is written

your beliefs are actually not Christian. you have made up a version of scripture that is not found in the original languages

continuing to deny the personhood of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is holding a position in opposition to scripture

we don't have to 'prove' anything. can you prove God is real? do you believe in Him?

atheists deny God and say He cannot be proven, yet the Bible states the person who denies God exists is a fool

refusing to accept what you cannot personally understand is simply your choice actually

is there someone on earth who actually understands and knows everything about God?

yet we have scripture to reveal to us the nature of God and we are made in His image according to Genesis

and who was God speaking to when He said 'let US' make man in our image? who was the US? God was obviously not speaking to Himself or to angels

You also call God your Father and the Jews are not happy even today- so what?

What work was/is the Father doing apart from salvation work? Jesus is the savior and apart from Him there's no other savior.
You need to understand what Jesus was referring them to when He said:

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

Jesus was referring them to:

Isa 43:
10“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?”


Now, going back to John 5 look at vs19, "Truly, truly, I say to you the Son can do nothing of Himself, (by definition Himself means one person), unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for (or because) whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner." The whole chapter of John 5 has two distict persons in view, not one and the same person in your "cultic" thinking.

What your also doing is mixing up the two words, "being" with the word "person." Being is defined as having existence. It could be an object, an idea, a symbol, anything that simply exists. Person is defined as "All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence, the essential nature, personality or characteritics/attributes.

And lastly, the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy, what was the blasphemy noose?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto[/QUOTE]
You also call God your Father and the Jews are not happy with you even today, so what?

Is there any work the Father was doing apart from salvation? well i have news for you, there's no other savior apart from Jesus and Jesus had a special way of referring people with regards to the works of his father:

John 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

Jesus was referring them to:

Isa 43:
10You are my witnesses, said the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
12I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore you are my witnesses, said the LORD, that I am God.
13Yes, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?


Look at what Jesus says to His disciples:

John 14:15 All things that the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it to you.

Jesus would have easily told His parents ".. why is it that you were looking for me in my house?"

Two or three distinct persons is not really an issue, now show how the two or three distinct persons are one.

Q1. Does Jesus exist on His own?
Q2. Does the father exist on His own?

"Hear Oh Israel, God is one" actually means "Hear Oh Israel, God exists?!!"

Apart from light, God is truth, God is also the way, eternal word, bread of life, life and the list goes on. I still don't understand why you are stuck on light and people to recognize God as light only.

Do what? Do you just make things up.

Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:41

As far as being eternal...

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:42

Special pleading. If that was true, people from Greece would have all made to heaven.

"...the spirit of truth shall lead you to all truth..." does not mean "...go yee and understand the original languages.."

The personhood of Jesus means the authority of the Father/Son/Holy spirit according to the scripture.

Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Name= Authority
Wonderful Counselor= Holy spirit
The mighty God= God
The everlasting Father= Father
The Prince of Peace= Son

How many persons is Isaiah talking about here?

Yes i can prove God exists.
No, no one understands God but the son has explained Him so we should be able to understand.

The image being spoken of in Genesis is not three distinct persons in one being. You are made in the image of God but are you three distinct persons in one being?

God said "let us make man in our own image.." and He made them (man & woman) in His image- means both man and woman are in the image of God, not man separate from a woman being made in the image of God. The context of that verses and entire Genesis and indeed the entire bible is about authority (ies). It is through authority that sin came to the whole world and it is through authority that salvation also comes to the world.

I pray that you come to realize what is happening here.

Again, the LORD is a God of truth, the truth is only a fact or belief with no error or falsehood so the truth is not God.

a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he Deut 32:4

I could go on about the other adjectives about God but what;s the point.

But you don't get it, do you?
Q. How did God send Jesus/ How did the Father send the son/How did the Master send the servant?
A. God became Jesus/ The father became the son/ The master became the servant

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, said the LORD of hosts.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mark 1:
1The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before your face, which shall prepare your way before you.
3The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out to him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. 6And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; 7And preached, saying, There comes one mightier than I after me, the lace of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
9And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

This is how God sent Jesus- he became Jesus. Just one person.

Noose...your thoughts do not align with what scripture states and you cannot ignore the original Greek and think that making fun of it by saying people from Greece would all have gone to heaven gives you a pass. that's utter nonsense

we know who wrote most of the books. Greek was the common language then in the area where the events of the NT took place

like English is a common language today

now if you continue to ignore that and the fact the Holy Spirit is referred to as HE, by those who walked the earth with Jesus, then you choose to remain ignorant and the truth is not in you. those who received the Holy Spirit first refer to HIM as HE...so you just sound ridiculous when you make an attempt to know better then the people who wrote the letters


I don't know where you got your disheveled ideas from, but certainly not from the Bible

until you admit your mistake and be honest with yourself, no one is going to be able to help you

I'm not going to try and convince you either...I told you the truth. I told you what the Bible says and you refuse it

the onus is on your. I think the word repent might play a part here also with regards to your refusal to accept scripture

I'll just refer to your comment above contained in the post I replied to above

the Bible has been translated into many languages because we no longer all speak ancient Greek

but it seems you do not understand English either for some reason

even an unbeliever could read the Bible and understand that the Holy Spirit is not an it....so it becomes clear that whatever you are listening to, is not the spirit of truth but rather a deceiving spirit

I hear your heartfelt warning but i'm not joking either; it is never about Greek or Hebrew or original languages. Sometimes you wish that you existed in that era and in those areas where Jesus walked, but funny thing is, those people who witnessed these things were very far from understanding Jesus more than us- even the disciples, if it were not for the Holy spirit, they wouldn't understand anything.

I don't deny the Holy spirit, i believe the holy spirit is Jesus and this is in line with scripture:

Rom 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, yourbody is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness.

Where did i refer to the Holy spirit as "it"?

well thanks for understanding I was not being 'fresh' with you

I understand you do not deny the Holy Spirit, but you also deny that HE is a person as the Bible says because you do not believe God is Triune in nature

it is absolutely about the language it was written in. it wasn't written in English

again, you can be as convinced that you are right and as serious as a heart attack, but if you continue to reject what is written, then you have not actually accepted the truth

that's all for now from me

thanks

since you asked:

your post 123

you say He is not a person...an authority is not a person, it is actually gender neutral. I can be an authority as well as a man

again, scripture is not gender neutral about the Holy Spirit and the writers would not call Him, He, unless He was a person

you call Him an authority in several posts but you know that so I don't have to continue to prove it...once was enough I would say

you further state that Jesus went back up to heaven and the the Holy Spirit is Jesus

you define God as all three and as has been pointed out to you, that is Modalism

and truly I am not staying here and continuing to engage you in a useless attempt to explain to you why you are wrong when there are already pages of people telling you the same thing

The 'He' actually refers to the owner of the authority who is Jesus.
I can say "the teacher came and he gave us some assignments"- the 'teacher' is an authority and the 'he' is the person. I don't see anything wrong with this.

Yes, Jesus went to heaven but it depends where you think heaven is; the bible has repeated severally, like a loud trumpet in someone's ear, that heaven in the new covenant is the believers heart - God's dwelling place is with men, but you wouldn't listen.

I don't mind being called a heretic and my views being called modalism- this is what i asked for and i got it, it's not your fault.

Let me see if I understand your question correctly.

You want ME a created being, that has many flaws, to explain how my Creator, and the Creator of ALL things, is able to be fully human AND fully God!?
If I'm able to pull that off, when I get to Heaven I'm gonna request to God to move over because there ARE 2 of us now!

No. It's enough that I believe Him when He says He became flesh through His only Son, a distinct entity, and died for my sin, and rose again.

I see you quoted Malachi 3:1 and put in red the following: "even the messenger of the covenant." Who is the messenger of the covenant and please tell me where this covenant was made in the Old Testament. This is the only question I have for you, so let's see you do some homework.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

the Most High could be speaking to angels, i dont see how you guys rule this out. so easy.
from Gen 1 1 all the way to Gen 1 26, every creation action was done by "He" (single) , then at the creation of man you all of a sudden have "us" (plural) and then at Gen 1 27 its back to "His" (single again). im not saying its one thing or another, i think its very strange.

That homework was already done by Mark (Mark 1:1-9). The messenger of the covenant is Jesus, the same person speaking as God Almighty in Malachi 3. God sends Himself but He changes His title to "a messenger of the covenant" when He is on earth- it is just one person not two.