The Cosmos

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Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#1
.
Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!

Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of
intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis
which read like this:

1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth
was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre
existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the
cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated
cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty
well on Wikipedia.

Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be
taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This
posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."

The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very
same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in
Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it
justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24
hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#2
.
Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!


Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of
intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis
which read like this:


1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth
was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre
existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the
cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated
cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty
well on Wikipedia.


Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be
taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This
posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:


"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."


The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very
same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in
Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it
justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24
hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_
Ever see a cooking segment on tv? The chef begins by putting ingredients into a bowl. But that wasn't really the exact beginning, because you didn't see him get out the ingredients and put them on the table. Yet the time frame can still be described as the beginning. This is how I view that there was already water. I don't believe that God created physicality until the earth, and therefore that water was what He began with. If I was teaching how to make a scarf, I'd say "first you take your yarn..." there is no need to say if or how I made my own yarn to begin with.

The day was a 24 hour period- one sun period in the sky. God stopped the sun for one day during war, if it had been a day that lasted years how could they stay awake that long? And trees, flowers, grass, etc cannot survive years without the sun- for there was evening then there was morning. Expanding how long a day was is insulting the power of God.

I understand that 'day' has more than one meaning. Old people say "In my day... we didn't have..." No one takes that to mean that his childhood was only a 24 hour period, but we do use the word both figuratively and literally, as does the bible. And it's not the only word like that. Take "running" for example. It says to wash in running water, and it says people were running.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#3
God stopped the sun for one day during war,
Stop the sun from what? from rotating around the earth?

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher?....." Josh 10:13

Well, is it written in the book of Jasher? No, it isn't thus the passages continues...

"....So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Josh 10:13

So does the sun every move from the middle of heaven?
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,188
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#4
.
Well; for sure we have to buy some time somewhere, lots of time-- either
with the gap theory or the yowm/epoch theory --in order to account for the
4.5 billion-year age of the earth, and factor in the various eras, e.g. Triassic,
Jurassic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic, and Cretaceous, etc, plus the ice ages and the
mass extinction events.

There are some serious geological issues too. For example: the discovery of
fossilized sea lilies near the summit of Mt Everest proves that the Himalayan
land mass hasn't always been mountainous; but at one time was the floor of
an ancient sea bed. This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below Everest's
summit consisting of limestone: a type of rock made from calcite sediments
containing the skeletal remains of countless trillions of organisms who lived,
not on dry land, but in an ocean.

Everest and its yellow band got up high like that by means of tectonic plate
buckling and/or subduction; which are very slow processes requiring
thousands of years.

And there are hominid issues. For example: in 1992, Tim White of the
University of California at Berkeley, discovered the fossilized skeleton of a
woman (nicknamed Ardi) in Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years
ago. His forty-seven member team, over a period of 17 years, discovered
portions of the skeletons of thirty-seven more individuals from the same era.

(Tim White's discovery sent evolutionists into a tail spin because the
woman’s age, combined with her physical design, proves that apes and
humans are separate and distinct species rather than sharing a common
ancestor in an evolutionary chain.)

Personally, I prefer the yowm/epoch theory, but at the same time readily
agree that the gap theory is equally possible.
_
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#5
Genesis is 24hrs day- the kind of yowm that started in the evening and ended in the morning "..and that was the first day..".
The evening and morning things should be very clear to everyone plus the earth is very young, evidence for an old earth is not convincing.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#6
(Tim White's discovery sent evolutionists into a tail spin because the
woman’s age, combined with her physical design, proves that apes and
humans are separate and distinct species rather than sharing a common
ancestor in an evolutionary chain.)
Really? That is how you considered the females use to look like?
1534687731700.jpeg
source
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#7
.
Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!


Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of
intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis
which read like this:


1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth
was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre
existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the
cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated
cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty
well on Wikipedia.


Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be
taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This
posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:


"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."


The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very
same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in
Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it
justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24
hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_
The Bible was created for the inhabitants of the Earth, and solely for the Earth and it's atmosphere (Heaven).

Genesis is a description of the Earth and it's Heaven (atmosphere) being created.

What this generation seems to fail to understand, is that the Kingdom of Heaven existed prior to the Earth ever being created. The Cosmos existed for an eternity before the Earth was ever created.

After the Kingdom of God existed for an eternity, one particular angel in Heaven started a war, and tried to overtake the Throne of God in Heaven, and He failed, the consequences of those actions is why God had a need to create the planet Earth. AFTER eons of the Kingdom of Heaven (Cosmos) existed. If you want to know the TRUTH how it all went down, and was told to me by God Himself, then click HERE and read the article i wrote concerning what God told me happened.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#8
.
Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!


Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of
intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis
which read like this:


1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth
was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre
existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the
cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated
cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty
well on Wikipedia.


Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be
taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This
posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:


"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."


The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very
same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in
Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it
justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24
hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_
yowm is translated into 54 different words in the Bible. 1181 out of 1480 occurences have it as DAY..... Look to Exodus 20:11.."For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. "

Here the Lord tells us how long the days were.... For the Sabbath day, well we all know how long it is. 24 hours.

Blade
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,188
972
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#9
.
Exodus 20:11. "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Each of the six days of creation are bounded by an evening and a morning. The seventh is not bounded; it's an open-ended day which means that God is still on sabbatical and hasn't created anything new for the current cosmos since the end of the sixth day, i.e. while the Jews' commemorative seventh day is 24 hours; God's actual seventh day is perpetual. (cf. Heb 4:1-11)
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,429
12,913
113
#10
Each of the six days of creation are bounded by an evening and a morning.
As long as we are clear that those were six literal 24-hour days, not day-ages or something else.

God is NOT the author of confusion and the Gap Theory belongs under the category of Fantasies.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,664
13,127
113
#11
If you want to know the TRUTH how it all went down, and was told to me by God Himself, then click HERE and read the article i wrote concerning what God told me happened.
you say:

Know you not that ALL of God’s plans come to pass? God has never made a plan that did not happen. If God planned for Adam and Eve to live in the Garden of Eden forever, i assure you Adam and Eve would still be there to this day. God’s plans do not fail. It was never His plan that Adam and Eve remain in the Garden forever.

but you also say:

Believe it or not there are some people who say and teach, that God knew that Lucifer was going to sin, when God created him, that God knew that there would be war in Heaven, and that He knew He was going to kick 1/3 of all the inhabitant out of Heaven,. They do error and do not know the Truth.

how is it God knew Adam would sin but didn't know Satan would?
if God's plans do not fail, was it His plan that Satan remain in heaven forever?
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,188
972
113
Oregon
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#12
.
As long as we are clear that those were six literal 24-hour days, not day
ages or something else.

When you think about it; a strict chronology of evening and morning doesn't
define day, it defines overnight; viz: darkness. In order to obtain a full 24
hour day, you'd have to define a creation Day as a day and a night rather
than an evening and a morning.

It was God himself who made sure that people understand that creation's
days were not amalgams of light and dark.

"God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and
the darkness He called Night." (Gen 1:4b-5a)

According to that verse; the days of creation were periods of light with no
darkness in them whatsoever. So then, 24-hour days don't really tell the
story.

Gen 1:24-31 says that God created humans and all terra critters on the
sixth Day; which has to include dinosaurs because on no other day did God
create beasts but the sixth. However; the fossil record, in combination with
scientific dating methods, strongly suggests that dinosaurs preceded humans
by several million years. Either those ancient critters' remains are left-overs
from a previous cosmos, or the days of creation are epochs because there
again, 24-hour days don't really tell the story.

This "evening and morning" thing has been a stone in the shoe for just about
everybody who takes Genesis seriously. But if we reckon those terms to
simply represent endings and beginnings instead of physical hours; then the
wrinkles in the first chapter of Genesis smooth right on out.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,376
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#13
In order to obtain a full 24 hour day, you'd have to define a creation Day as a day and a night rather than an evening and a morning.
Not necessarily. "An evening and a morning" is a legitimate way to denote a 24-hour day in the worldview of the 2nd millennium BC.

According to that verse; the days of creation were periods of light with no darkness in them whatsoever. So then, 24-hour days don't really tell the story.
Again, this is a meaning being forced on the text.

Gen 1:24-31 says that God created humans and all terra critters on the sixth Day; which has to include dinosaurs because on no other day did God create beasts but the sixth. However; the fossil record, in combination with scientific dating methods, strongly suggests that dinosaurs preceded humans by several million years. Either those ancient critters' remains are left-overs from a previous cosmos, or the days of creation are epochs because there again, 24-hour days don't really tell the story.
Radiometric dating is based on untestable assumptions and, in simple terms, is not accurate, and there is a lot of circular reasoning inherent in most dating methods. The recent discoveries of soft tissues in dinosaur remains strongly challenges the "millions of years" hypotheses. The appearance of dinosaurs in artistic depictions from around the globe prior to the 20th century demonstrates that there was knowledge of the living creatures, not merely of fossils.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,429
12,913
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#14
When you think about it; a strict chronology of evening and morning doesn't
define day, it defines overnight; viz: darkness. In order to obtain a full 24
hour day, you'd have to define a creation Day as a day and a night rather
than an evening and a morning.
Just count the number of hours from 6 p.m. today to 6 p.m. tomorrow and see if they do not add up to 24 hours.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#15
.



Each of the six days of creation are bounded by an evening and a morning. The seventh is not bounded; it's an open-ended day which means that God is still on sabbatical and hasn't created anything new for the current cosmos since the end of the sixth day, i.e. while the Jews' commemorative seventh day is 24 hours; God's actual seventh day is perpetual. (cf. Heb 4:1-11)
_
Understand, was just using it to answer another post. The Sabbath on earth is 24 HRS still.

Blade
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
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#17
lol, you have to admit though it's either 7 24 hour day's or 7 day ages unless the heat of the hot part of the day is defined differently from the night,,,yowm I suppose to be the rebuttal...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,429
12,913
113
#18
.
"the evening and the morning" wouldn't run from 6pm to 6pm. It would run
from 6pm to 6am, viz: 12 hours.
_
Except that the following day is not describe as "morning and morning", but evening and morning, which means that each day went from sunset to sunset and that is how Hebrew days were reckoned.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#19
.



"the evening and the morning" wouldn't run from 6pm to 6pm. It would run
from 6pm to 6am, viz: 12 hours.
_
Your idea of evening and morning doesn't correlate with the bible. In Genesis, a day is described as evening and morning and all throughout the old testament, a day started at around 3pm (beginning of sun set-evening) and morning at around 3am all the way to 3pm. So, morning is 3am to 3pm and evening is 3pm to 3am and we can see this pattern throughout- not 6pm to 6am or mid night to noon.
This evening and morning days has brought about great controversy according to some people; they believe the bible has contradictory accounts of Jesus crucifixion. One gospels says He was arrested at cock's crow (3am), tried at the 3rd hour of the day (6am), crucified at noon and died at sunset (3pm). This is the Jewish evening/morning day setting.
The other account (which could have been of Roman origin day setting) states that Jesus was tried in the 1st hour of the day (6am), crucified on the 6th hour of the day (noon) and died on the 9th hour of the day (3pm)
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,188
972
113
Oregon
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#20
.
Your idea of evening and morning doesn't correlate with the bible.

Well; if you're going cite the New Testament, then you're pretty much
obligated to cite Christ's definition of day, which reads as follows:

John 11:9-10 . . Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in
the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if
anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.

According to Jesus' statement, day is a 12-hour period of light only rather
than a 24-hour amalgam of light and dark. Which corroborates God's
testimony that day is light and night is dark.

Gen 1:4b-5a . . God separated the light from the darkness. God called the
light Day, and the darkness He called Night.

In my mind's eye, Jesus and his Father easily qualify as expert witnesses
who know what they're talking about so I really think you should listen to
them.

Now as to the biblical meanings of evening and morning, I think it best to
define evening as the hours between high noon and sunset, and define
morning as the hours between sunrise and high noon. That works for me
because that way, evening plus morning adds up to daytime only with no
darkness thrown in to muddy the waters.

If those definitions are true, then it's readily seen that God did all of His
creative works in light only rather than in both light and dark; except of
course the creation of light itself; which was done in the dark.

It's sometimes objected that the Hebrew word for "evening" always and only
defines dusk; but sometimes 'ereb (eh'-reb) suffices for afternoon too.
_