Jesus and the Covenants

When Christ said upon this Rock I will build my church, he was talking about himself in the wilderness with the children of Israel.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and all the rest of the Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith just like we are, how are they different than us who are saved the same way?

Then this is odd that the bible says no man has been to heaven,
where God the father dwells besides Christ.

John 1:18 (KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Why don't you simply study Paul's epistle to the Hebrews? That makes all of this very clear. To FULFILL means to "fill full". The Old Covenant was waiting to be fulfilled in Christ. Therefore the New Covenant went into effect when He cried "IT IS FINISHED".

Jesus speaks future tense about a past tense event . . . nuh uh!

OT persons being saved the same as we are? . . . they didn't even have a clue about it. All they had were types and symbols and temporary offerings to cover their sins - which had to be repeated annually.

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into" (I Peter 1:10-12).

Had to wait for Paul to unravel the mysteries of the prophets.

What living man do you know of that ever tried to enter heaven in his flesh - saved or not? Paul went up into the third heaven - but he was in the spirit.

My wife is there now . . . in the spirit.

My Bible also tells me that I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus.

New Jerusalem comes down to this earth after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20). During that mean-time (the 7th and final 1,000 years of this present earth), we, who are believers, do indeed, enter Heaven upon Jesus second advent. John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:14,17; etc.

People generally confuse the reigning in Heaven with the reigning on earth. There are two reigns, one leading into the other. The one time-sensitive (1,000 years), and the other without end (for ever).

Allow me to demonstrate from scripture, if you will please:

Those passages (Revelation 20:1-7) speak about a "1000 years" "reign", a "millenium" [latin: "mille":1000 and "annum":years] that shall be with Christ Jesus and His Saints.

Where will this "1000 years" "reign" with Christ Jesus be? Shall it be here upon this Earth? or shall it be elsewhere instead [and if elsewhere, where then, and what of the Earth at that time, and where will Satan and the wicked be during this same period, and what then after the 1000 years]? Let us look to the scriptures for these answers:

There are two "reigns" ["1000 years" and "forever and ever"], one leading into the other:

The passages which speak about the "1000 years" "reign" of the Saints with Christ Jesus [Revelation 20:1-7] make absolutely no mention of being "on the earth". The passages which speak about the "reign on the earth" [Revelation 5:10] does not end after a "1000 years", for it is even "forever and ever" [Revelation 11:15, 22:5]. In fact, the passages declare that those Saints reigning with Christ Jesus in the "1000 years" are "in Heaven" before the throne of God on the "sea of glass mingled with fire" [Revelation 4:6, 15:2].

This is a short summation if you will please. I have much more detail on these things as needful.

It is sad. I don't have time or the inclination to post the entire New Testament to these cultists. They have the scriptures - but British Israelism has told them how to interpret them.

Read and study Hebrews 11. Ever since Abel, all the OT saints were JUSTIFIED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. And they anticipated the sacrifice of Christ as the Lamb of God when they sacrificed clean animals to God and shed their blood.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. (Heb 11:4)
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. (Gen 22:7,8)

Not attempting to be snarky, but these verse - though great - do not show that they understood the death, burial and resurrection of Christ which is the Gospel. Even at the time of the crucifixion the Apostles did not understand what was transpiring.

Did you miss this part of the verses you qouted?

1 Peter 1:11 KJV
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Spirit of Christ was in them testifying to them BEFOREHAND about the sufferings of Christ. They knew Christ, Christ dwelt in them, they knew he was coming, they knew he would suffer and die for their sins and bring glory to them. How can you say they didn't have a clue?

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

That's why David when he ate the shewbread that was for the preists only was BLAMELESS. He was a "new testament" priests. New Testament is in qoutes because there is no such thing as a new testament church, the church has always been around and they are God's chosen people whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Amen, he did see it and he unsderstood it.

Isaiah spoke of the crucifixion in detail in 52-53. They knew that the sin offering pictured something in the future. I believe even Adam knew that the coats of skin he and Eve were clothed with represented something greater. But I stand on the fact that the crucifixion was a closed subject to them.

"And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done" (Luke 24:18-21).

They were looking for a conquering Messiah, not a suffering Saviour.

i certainly don't think there's going to be a 'Jewish quarter' in heaven. no Jew or Gentile in Christ; all are one.

but..


who is being made jealous by a called-out people who were not even a people? who is being provoked to anger by us fools?

who is it that's going to weep and mourn when they see who it is that they have pierced?
it appears obvious to me that God in fact still recognizes and deals with the physical descendants of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob, today. that it is not insignificant to belong to one of the 12 tribes.

have you ever met a woman who has murdered her husband? that's Israel.
will God forsake her utterly?

The Book of Hosea is a perfect picture of God's dealing with Israel.

But I always wondered about a guy that marries a girl named Gomer . . . Go-o-lly!

God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute - and she leaves him and finds herself in dire straits - then God tells him to go and redeem her.

I would also add the following 16:

1 Pet 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

I think to who (you) this is addressed is often over looked, his 1st century audience - the "scattered" aka the diaspora of the 12 tribes:

1 Pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen.

And this is in total keeping with his statements in Acts:

Acts 3:24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days.

"all the prophets" were not announcing events 1970 years later and counting. There is no gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel "announced" in scripture.

I'm sure they were no different than people of today, some knew the scriptures and some didn't but to say that the Old Testament saints had no clue about Christ coming to save them from their sins is just not true. The gospel was preached and it was contained in foreshadowing all over the Old Testament.

The Jews that were chosen of God knew all about Christ because Christ was in them. Now the flesh Jews that didn't have Christ in them probably were looking for a conquering Messiah.

The prophets were looking over the plain of time and all they could see was two mountain peaks, law and grace - but they could not see the valley between wherein contained the cross and the resurrection, or the New Testament Bible-believing church and saints therein. Their scope was limited. They saw "a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect" . . . they observed holy days, new moons and the sabbath "Which are a shadow of things to come."

Where is the sabbath today? It is done away with in Him - He is our sabbath.

If the Old Testament saints had a clear understanding of Bible salvation, then why did they still observe the sabbath?

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you . . . Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:13, 16).

If you are going to be consistent in your understanding then you must insist that the sabbath is to be observed today in the church.