Rich or close to Jesus

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#61
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#61
SpoonJuly said:
The verse applies to everyone.
But here is where many misunderstand-------
God blesses some with wealth. The bible is filled with these very Godly men who were faithful to God while also being rich.
When people associate all who have wealth with being lost and hell bound they ignore that God often bless some with wealth.
Wealth has nothing to do with one being lost or saved.
There are probably more poor lost than wealthy.

What do you believe make a man wealth? How much money, property, assets?
Click to expand...
I do not know how much money the wealthy has to have to call rich, but Jesus say not easy for rich go to heaven. And I know Jesus never Lie.

Jesus also say


Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Seem to me there is correlation Being save and rich. This conclution is base oN my believe that Jesus never Lie.

I do not know why you do not believe what Jesus say.
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#62
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
#62
dcontroversal said:
What does that have to do with the erroneous comment you made....? Answer....Nothing.....Your comment was false bro....Wealth of any type is sin<--that is not biblical.......
Click to expand...
Jesus made the statement about the rich man to illustrate a point.
We are all more concerned about our on welfare than serving others.
That is the sin. That is the sin we are all guilty of. That is a sin we all willingly justify. That is why we require the saving grace of Jesus for salvation. That is what you do not understand....
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#63
#63
Jackson123 said:
I do not know how much money the wealthy has to have to call rich, but Jesus say not easy for rich go to heaven. And I know Jesus never Lie.

Jesus also say


Matthew 6:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Seem to me there is correlation Being save and rich. This conclution is base oN my believe that Jesus never Lie.

I do not know why you do not believe what Jesus say.
Click to expand...
I believe what Jesus says, do you?
Abraham was rich, was he saved?
God gave Job's riches back to him, was he saved?
Solomon was the riches man on earth, was he saved?
Being rich does not keep a person from being saved, not believing in Jesus is what keeps a man from being saved.
The LOVE of money is sin, not wealth that some men are blessed with.
You should never judge a persons heart and his relationship with God based on how poor or how rich he is.
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#64
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
#64
SpoonJuly said:
I believe what Jesus says, do you?
Abraham was rich, was he saved?
God gave Job's riches back to him, was he saved?
Solomon was the riches man on earth, was he saved?
Being rich does not keep a person from being saved, not believing in Jesus is what keeps a man from being saved.
The LOVE of money is sin, not wealth that some men are blessed with.
You should never judge a persons heart and his relationship with God based on how poor or how rich he is.
Click to expand...
No one was saved before Jesus death on the cross. The answer is No.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#65
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#65
SpoonJuly said:
I believe what Jesus says, do you?
Abraham was rich, was he saved?
God gave Job's riches back to him, was he saved?
Solomon was the riches man on earth, was he saved?
Being rich does not keep a person from being saved, not believing in Jesus is what keeps a man from being saved.
The LOVE of money is sin, not wealth that some men are blessed with.
You should never judge a persons heart and his relationship with God based on how poor or how rich he is.
Click to expand...
Yep, not every rich man in the old testament are not save. But If you say rich Nothing to do with salvation, than why Jesus say not easy for rich to go to heaven?

The fact that Jesus say :

1 not easy for rich man to go to heaven

2. Lay not your treasures oN earth

3. Your treasures is where your hearth is

Indicate there is connection between rich and salvation

3 fact above tell me that not easy for rich man go to heaven.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#66
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,905
113
#66
Embankment said:
No one was saved before Jesus death on the cross
Click to expand...
Another false notion from you. Not sure where you have been getting these false teachings or been indoctrinated, but you should study the matter carefully. Start with Hebrews 11 and work you way back to Genesis.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#67
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
70
Illinois
#67
Embankment said:
No one was saved before Jesus death on the cross. The answer is No.
Click to expand...
No, they were not saved . . . in that we agree. They were 'safe' so long as they followed the constraints of Judaism and brought their lamb without spot or blemish once a year and performed other offerings and brought gifts throughout the year. If they stopped being obedient to Moses' system they were no longer 'safe' - but outcasts.

Except for a few chosen individuals - no one was infilled, let only 'sealed' with the Holy Spirit of promise. And even in those case where the OT personage was 'filled' for service - the Spirit could leave, i.e., Samson, Saul, etc. Not David, however (Psalm 51).

The covenant theologians and the calvinists on this site refuse to rightly divide the Word of Truth and see the distinction between the economy of law and grace.

I rather think they flee from Paul's epistles as those he were a leper.
 
EmilyFoster

EmilyFoster

Well-known member
#68
Jul 10, 2018
1,352
1,100
113
#68
Very thought provoking…. Thanks for sharing, Jackson. Also, reminds me of:

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#69
#69
A rich man is not known by his many possessions but is known by what he can afford to give away.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#70
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#70
Been reading these posts and i can't believe how people are so far removed from what Jesus meant. Jesus was not talking about material wealth but the knowledge of God that only comes from God.

The rich young ruler asked a specific question- what to do to inherit the kingdom of God. For those that are keen, the answer was already there from Jesus's previous teachings, specifically:

Mat 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven..."

And Jesus knowing the man's heart, answered him in a way that correlates with Mat 5 but twisted it in a parable form.
The man's mistake was not wealth but pride; he was proud that he has kept all law and therefore knew God but actually didn't recognize God as he addressed God as 'good teacher/master'. That's why Jesus asks him rhetorically, "...why do you call me good, only God is good.."

The man's riches were really not about material wealth but failure to recognize Jesus as the good God. Such a proud heart can not inherit the kingdom of God, it is indeed easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than such a heart to enter the kingdom. A humble/meek heart on the other hand, a heart that is willing to learn from God will enter the kingdom- these are the ones that are referred to as the poor in spirit.

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you arewretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#71
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#71
EmilyFoster said:
Very thought provoking…. Thanks for sharing, Jackson. Also, reminds me of:

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...
You very welcome, these verses remind me and help me alot not to focus oN earthly thing. I am from poor family think about and want to be rich, I was think Being rich Will be like a man, respected in the community instead of demeaned.
But I learn what Paul say, compare with what Will we get in heaven, all that I think valuable is Nothing but garbage. All that we can see are temporal,

2 cor 4
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


Let say I am rich and all people respect me. I am 62, I may enjoy Being rich and respected for anothe 20 years and because Jesus say not easy for rich man go to heaven, when I die, let say at 82 I may go to hell and forget about how rich i was, how was people respect me.

Analyzed what Jesus say I believe It is easier for poor go to heaven compare to rich.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#72
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#72
Noose said:
Been reading these posts and i can't believe how people are so far removed from what Jesus meant. Jesus was not talking about material wealth but the knowledge of God that only comes from God.

The rich young ruler asked a specific question- what to do to inherit the kingdom of God. For those that are keen, the answer was already there from Jesus's previous teachings, specifically:

Mat 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven..."

And Jesus knowing the man's heart, answered him in a way that correlates with Mat 5 but twisted it in a parable form.
The man's mistake was not wealth but pride; he was proud that he has kept all law and therefore knew God but actually didn't recognize God as he addressed God as 'good teacher/master'. That's why Jesus asks him rhetorically, "...why do you call me good, only God is good.."

The man's riches were really not about material wealth but failure to recognize Jesus as the good God. Such a proud heart can not inherit the kingdom of God, it is indeed easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than such a heart to enter the kingdom. A humble/meek heart on the other hand, a heart that is willing to learn from God will enter the kingdom- these are the ones that are referred to as the poor in spirit.

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you arewretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Click to expand...
I think that man was rich in matery. When Jesus say sale all you have and give to the poor, what is that mean? It is matery.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#73
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#73
Jackson123 said:
I think that man was rich in matery. When Jesus say sale all you have and give to the poor, what is that mean? It is matery.
Click to expand...
The lesson was not about people selling all there wealth to inherit the kingdom of God, if that was the lesson then Paul and other apostles should have taught that- is there any place the apostles taught poverty as being key to the kingdom of God?

Yes the man was wealthy, but Jesus only used his wealth to further the parable. In that very passage, Jesus was claiming to be the good God, something that the man could not accept.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#74
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#74
Noose said:
The lesson was not about people selling all there wealth to inherit the kingdom of God, if that was the lesson then Paul and other apostles should have taught that- is there any place the apostles taught poverty as being key to the kingdom of God?

Yes the man was wealthy, but Jesus only used his wealth to further the parable. In that very passage, Jesus was claiming to be the good God, something that the man could not accept.
Click to expand...

Matt 19
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Yep Being poor is not the key to go to heaven. But the man in matt 19 is rich in matery.

These verses indicate that man was rich in matery.

He went away sorrowful for he had great possessions

Poor is not the key go to heaven, but Jesus say not easy for rich to go to heaven.

It may not easy for both poor and rich to go to heaven, but because Jesus say not easy for rich to go to heaven, so I believe It is easier for poor go to heaven compare with rich, otherwise Jesus Will say not easy for both poor and rich to go to heaven.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#75
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#75
Jackson123 said:
Matt 19
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Yep Being poor is not the key to go to heaven. But the man in matt 19 is rich in matery.

These verses indicate that man was rich in matery.

He went away sorrowful for he had great possessions

Poor is not the key go to heaven, but Jesus say not easy for rich to go to heaven.

It may not easy for both poor and rich to go to heaven, but because Jesus say not easy for rich to go to heaven, so I believe It is easier for poor go to heaven compare with rich, otherwise Jesus Will say not easy for both poor and rich to go to heaven.
Click to expand...
Nobody denies that the young man was materially rich but if the lesson was not about selling wealth to inherit the kingdom of God, why insist on material wealth? why not dwell on the spiritual lesson?

Jesus talks to the man about heavenly riches, are heavenly riches something that someone can buy? are heavenly riches in any way connected to selling our earthly wealth?

I repeat, it is not about material wealth.

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#76
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#76
Noose said:
Nobody denies that the young man was materially rich but if the lesson was not about selling wealth to inherit the kingdom of God, why insist on material wealth? why not dwell on the spiritual lesson?

Jesus talks to the man about heavenly riches, are heavenly riches something that someone can buy? are heavenly riches in any way connected to selling our earthly wealth? why does Jesus tell him to sell and not give it away freely- selling and keeping the money is still possessing wealth, don't you think so?

I repeat, it is not about material wealth.

Rev 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Click to expand...
Jesus say sell what you have and give It to the poor. Mean he had to give away what he had.

Yes selling and keeping the money is still possesing wealth, but Jesus say sell and give to the poor.

So you believe :

It ie easier for camel go through to the eye of the nidle than rich (spiritually rich man) go to heaven

To me rich in this verse is rich in matery. Spiritually rich Will go to heaven.

Seem to me You believe spiritually rich go to hell, and rich in matery go to heaven
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#77
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#77
Jackson123 said:
Jesus say sell what you have and give It to the poor. Mean he had to give away what he had.

Yes selling and keeping the money is still possesing wealth, but Jesus say sell and give to the poor.

So you believe :

It ie easier for camel go through to the eye of the nidle than rich (spiritually rich man) go to heaven

To me rich in this verse is rich in matery. Spiritually rich Will go to heaven.

Seem to me You believe spiritually rich go to hell, and rich in matery go to heaven
Click to expand...
It is 100x easier for a camel through the eye of the needle than the rich in spirit to enter the kingdom of God. That is precisely what Jesus was saying there.

Luke 12:
13Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”
16And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
18“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’
20“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
21“This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

You also need to understand what it means 'rich' and 'poor' at heart. Poor at heart as used in the scripture means the meek/ humble heart that is ready to receive the word of God. The opposite simply means proud. The promise since OT was that the humble will inherit the kingdom:

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Psalms 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose. 13His soul will dwell in prosperity, and his descendantswill inherit the land

Psalm 37:9
For the evildoers will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

Psalm 37:11
But the meek will inherit the land and delight in abundant prosperity.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#78
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#78
Noose said:
It is 100x easier for a camel through the eye of the needle than the rich in spirit to enter the kingdom of God. That is precisely what Jesus was saying there.

Luke 12:
13Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”
16And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
18“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’
20“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
21“This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

You also need to understand what it means 'rich' and 'poor' at heart. Poor at heart as used in the scripture means the meek/ humble heart that is ready to receive the word of God. The opposite simply means proud. The promise since OT was that the humble will inherit the kingdom:

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Psalms 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose. 13His soul will dwell in prosperity, and his descendantswill inherit the land

Psalm 37:9
For the evildoers will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

Psalm 37:11
But the meek will inherit the land and delight in abundant prosperity.
Click to expand...
This man was rich in matery not in spirit He had abundant harvest and need bigger storage.

He was not rich in spirit, It is easier for camel go through the yet of the niddle than rich man (rich in matery, abundant harvest) go to heaven.

I do not know why you interprate this man and a man in matt 19 poor in matery but rich in spirit. My interpretation is thiese man wealthy in matery.

How you interprate abundant abundant harvest, AS poor in matery but rich in spirit?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#79
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#79
Jackson123 said:
This man was rich in matery not in spirit He had abundant harvest and need bigger storage.

He was not rich in spirit, It is easier for camel go through the yet of the niddle than rich man (rich in matery, abundant harvest) go to heaven.

I do not know why you interprate this man and a man in matt 19 poor in matery but rich in spirit. My interpretation is thiese man wealthy in matery.

How you interprate abundant abundant harvest, AS poor in matery but rich in spirit?
Click to expand...
The man was rich in spirit for considering Jesus as only being 'a good teacher' and never good God, and was also proud for he thought he had everything covered in terms of keeping the law.

There's no cut mark for being materially wealthy or poor, having functioning eyes/ears/tongue (mouth)/hands/limbs to some is all the wealth that they ever needed. Jesus's teachings are embedded in the spiritual and not the material.

Jesus ended this teaching with an interesting saying, "..the last shall be the first, and the first, last.." what did He actually mean by that?
According to you, it means the most wealthy person shall be the last and the poorest person shall be the first?!! :(
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#80
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#80
Jackson123 said:
This man was rich in matery not in spirit He had abundant harvest and need bigger storage.

He was not rich in spirit, It is easier for camel go through the yet of the niddle than rich man (rich in matery, abundant harvest) go to heaven.

I do not know why you interprate this man and a man in matt 19 poor in matery but rich in spirit. My interpretation is thiese man wealthy in matery.

How you interprate abundant abundant harvest, AS poor in matery but rich in spirit?
Click to expand...
Sorry, my earlier response was directed to the rich young ruler story. As for the rich man with abundant harvest- the man did not actually exist because it was a parable. From a parables conclusion, we draw our lesson and the lesson here is not about selling our wealth but being humble/meek in spirit in believing the word of God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.